A Bit of a Rant

[Bill Raby]

   I know that there is a number of people reading this who are interested in building rifles and trying to learn as much about it as they can. This is meant for you. Maybe you have joined and never posted anything or maybe you have not joined and are just looking. That is fine. I am doing gun building building videos on You Tube and its pretty common to hear from people that watch them.

   There is comment I have gotten a couple times now. Got it again today and it kind of set me off. Pretty much amounts to this. "I really want to build my first gun, but I watched your video and decided I cannot do as good a job as you are doing so I am not even going to try now". KNOCK IT OFF!!!! When you look at the pictures on this website you see the work of guys that have been building guns for decades. No, your first gun is not going to look like those. It will probably be a bit rough. Well guess what. The one thing that all the people here building amazing guns have in common is that they all built the first one at some point. And not a single one of those first guns looks as nice as the guns they build today.

   Here is another thing all of these great gun builders have in common. They all actually BUILT that first rifle. Nobody is really good at something the first time they do it. But you will never be good at anything if you don't do it that first time. Some people have the idea that I am a highly skilled gun building expert just because I am doing videos. Not true at all! I have only been doing this a few years and have only built a few guns. A few years ago I was one of you guys that wanted to build a gun and had no idea how to do it. And then I just did it. I learned as I went and made plenty of mistakes.

   Building a truly incredible gun takes a lot of years of practice. But building a pretty good gun really is not very hard at all. Few things bugs me more than someone who gives up before they even try. My weak point is engraving. I just have not done very much of it. Right now I am working engraving a patch box. This is my first time using a pneumatic graver. I spent some time tonight doing very mediocre engraving that will be feature in an upcoming video. I am very happy with it. Might not look as nice as what you see on some of those English best rifles but I don't care. I worked hard to do the best job that I am capable of doing at this point. When this engraving job is done and I start on the next gun I plan to take one night a week to just work on engraving practice. The next gun that I engrave will be better. Eventually I will actually be pretty good at it.

   Get rid of this idea that you can't do it. Don't be discouraged by thinking that you can't do as good a job as someone else. One thing I can promise you is that you will enjoy a gun that you built yourself more than any gun you buy, even if it is a bit rough. And comparing it to the work that someone else does is just stupid. If you try to match someone with decades of experience on your first attempt, you will fail every time. Your goal needs to be doing the best work that you are capable of doing. If you do that, you will build something that you can be proud of.

[Jason C]

Thank you for this.

[Ray Settanta]

Good post, Bill. Sound advice.

[thecapgunkid]

Patience.  Maybe you should whittle down this post into a standard reply and fire it off every time you get the inquiry without thinking or agonizing over it.  Everyone who has built more than one will take your comments as gospel anyway, and I don't see any radical drop off in posts or members of this forum.  So the newby will benefit from your reply because the facts you presented here are undeniable.

Thanks, anyway, and...

Don't shoot yore eye out, kid

Capgun

[JLayne]

Good advice. As a newbie myself, I would just add to other beginners who decide to take the plunge, check your ego at the door and don't be afraid questions on here, even if you think your particular question may sound stupid to the more experienced.  Lord knows I'm not, and this forum has been a great help to me as a result.

Jay

[alacran]

Not everyone that wants to build a long rifle should build one. If your video discourages some one from wasting money on a pipe dream, then that's a good thing.
When I built my first ML, not my first kit, but gun from a plank, there was no Google, You Tube, etc.
If you wanted to make a rifle , your information came from books, and it wasn't easy to find, specially if you lived West of the Mississippi.
In this age of instant gratification it is not surprising that some one is not willing to try something because they will not do a great job on the first try.

[Dennis Glazener]

My dad used to have a saying: "Can't never could because he never would" what he meant is if you don't try to do something you never will learn to do it. I am a firm believer in trying, might have to keep the outcome hidden but sooner or later I will be able to do it well enough to suit myself
Dennis

[dieselmech570]

Well put Bill, I built my first ML at 15 yrs old, then, about 5 yrs ago I bought a pre-carved parts set on this website with a cracked stock, I glued it back together with superglue, and build it under the watchful eye of a good friend who is a retired 82 yr old gunsmith. It looks ok, but is extremely accurate, made meat with it two months after it was done. I am now applying the finish to my 3rd build, this time from a blank I got at Dixons gun show a few yrs ago and had it pre carved by Dave Keck, and guided through the build by my retired friend. Each project is better than the last, I did my first patch box and basic carving on this build. This site and my retired gunsmith friend has been very instrumental to my progress, I took my project to Dixons gun fair this past summer and met with MDH AKA Matt at the ALR tent, and did my best to execute his comments. My point is go slow, ask lots of questions, and practice on scrap pieces first if possible. Thank you to everyone here on this site for your help to all of us just getting started. I will attempt to post some pics when this build is done in a few weeks. Thank you all, Dieselmech570.

[Bob McBride]

Bill,
You’re giving guys who WANT to build a rifle, the exposure to each of the steps required to finish one. That’s all you can do. You really go out of your way to break it down to the small steps and show that each step is not very difficult. That’s a great service to those working on their first few guns.

You could give a version of this rant to your viewers in video #1 on your next build.

[Joe S.]

And some folks you can't reach.......even in the best of times they find reasons why they can't. You shouldn't tie yourself in a knot over folks like that.I'm still enjoying my first build, shooting and hunting with it......everywhere that gun goes it gets compliments, you built that?yes sir.I could never do that is a common replie,have you ever tried?is mine.One day when the spirit moves me I will build another.All the knowledge and help is out there, especially right here.I couldn't have done it without folks on here guiding me either reading posts or answering my questions via PM,email.The one thing that never started off a conversation was "I can't "

[Eric Krewson]

I occasionally teach bow making and tried hosting two Bow Bees to bring people into the craft, I provided all the necessary tools and materials. I had a garage full of people who would watch me work but never pick up a tool, their reason "I am afraid I will mess something up" .

I have run at least 12 people through my shop as bow students, I gave them unlimited access to my shop, provided the tools and bow staves for free and as much of my time as they needed be it a few days or even weeks. 90% of them walked away in the middle of the process when they found out bow making is hard work. Three or 4 actually made a bow with me doing a good part of the work when they were about to ruin their stave.

Then there was my one pride and joy student, he took to bow making like a duck to water, started gathering his own osage staves, made a bow making shop at his house and has been cranking out bows ever since.

Sometimes we take our craftyness for granted, the majority of folk don't have this gene and are perplexed by creating anything.

Now I understand, likewise, I don't have a musically inclined cell in my body and no amount of training or perseverance will put one there.

[Bob Roller]

My first build was based on an octagon to round 25-20 barrel from a breech loader
and it was NOT a work of art but was very functional and had a lock I made copied
from one made by P.I.Spence in Marietta Ohio. This was in 1957.I shot a bullet in it
with about 20 to 25 grains of DuPont 3FG and it did fairly well but was not a match
rifle.It was a half stock of "birdseye" maple. The next one was a 58 caliber light rifle
that was a match winner and was an irritation to the locals that thought only small bore,
LONG barreled guns were the most accurate.That barrel was 33"x 1",the first one made
by Bill Large when he got his big shop working in 1958. I think I made this in my back
porch shop in September of that year.I still have the loading rod,a 9/16"hickory thing
referred to as the Broomhandle".
   Even the finest of guns or cars or anything ewlse made by the hands and skills of men
will NEVER be perfect even though they may look like it so don't fret and fume if your
first one doesn't look like a presentation piece.Take it to the range,load and fire it and
enjoy it.
Bob Roller

[rich pierce]

Some of this can be self-knowledge. I bet every youth basketball coach has seen kids who are just slow and uncoordinated. Violin teachers the same. Some get it and some do not. Same with folks that hold classes for gunmaking, engraving, bladesmithing. I’m sure they see some folks who never picked up a graver before, are doing nice work in 3 days. Others, not so much.

Not everybody can become “pretty good” at a particular skill regardless of application, training, and desire. Some folks statement that they “could never do that” could reflect that they know their limitations or their lack of desire to work through some so-so builds to really learn their potential.

[WadePatton]

I agree that folks give up pretty quick, but also I think a big LOT of folks these days simply don't have much experience with using tools to build things.  Nothing is wrong with that at all, But it's going to take them a good bit more practice and discovery to find out if they are capable.

Probably a good idea for folks who fit this category to start with something far less expensive and complex as a longrifle in order to get a feel for what they might reasonably be capable of.

One could do worse that learning to make a simple box with hand tools (like Paul Sellers* might do). And or a simple metal project, like making a bolt and threading a hole that matches.  The guys who have workshop experience are likely to able to jump in with some skills that may only need tweaking in various ways.  But then there are lots of ham-fisted home-shop guys too.

*Mr. Sellers is a good teacher with lots of free content up for making nice things and maintaining sharp tools. But you don't have to work at Paul's level to make a decent gun.   What you have to do is take the time/practice commensurate with you skillset to develop your feel and eyes--and listen to feedback from long-time builders (easy to find here) and get with it.  There's nothing like having a local guru to help, but you might not find one of those.  We've dozens of Masters here who can assist in the layout and execution decisions/techniques/repairs.  You still have to do the work.

Some folks can't turn a screw without making a mess, and that might not train out of them. They likely have skills in other areas.

I say, when in doubt, start with something small (NOT a pistol )--put as many errors and oopsies into your accoutrements and other projects as possible such that less might be made on the guns.


I'm agreeing with Rich in a way, just offering that everyone should try and learn to be sure where their "talent" might be.


 

[Bob McBride]

An example of the ‘incapable’ is my father in law. My mother in law bought all new switch and plug covers for the house a few years back. After my father in law cracked the first four by overtightening with no sign of changing his approach she called me In a panic and furious. I had to call him and tell him to stop.

As the Cool Hand Luke’s nemisis said, “Some men you just can’t reach....”

[Dave Marsh]

[smylee grouch]

There are people who claim to want to do any number of things but as has been noted they also want that instant gratification. Those types will probably never be craftsmen at least until they ditch the defeated attitude. A lot of those people have always had someone else to do their hard work.

[john bohan]

Dennis took the words out of my mouth, can't never did anything.

[Jason C]

My dad used to have a saying: "Can't never could because he never would" what he meant is if you don't try to do something you never will learn to do it. I am a firm believer in trying, might have to keep the outcome hidden but sooner or later I will be able to do it well enough to suit myself
Dennis

My grandfather said something very similar: "Can't never could do nothing"

[Bill Raby]

My favorite comment is when someone that never built a gun before tells me that I am doing it wrong.

[oldtravler61]

  Bill  first Muzzeloader I ever built was scratch built.  Had a picture from an article in Muzzeloader magazine about a man named Marshall Hooker an his D. Boone rifle. Block of wood an a getz barrel an know one to give me pointers until I had it built an shooting. So know one should ever say CAN'T.
I posted it hear but from a very very long distance from the camera.....Oldtravler

[Obi2winky]

I have wanted to build a longrifle as soon as I got out of college but never had the time/money/guts to try it. A decade later and hours and hours of watching Bill's gunbuilding videos, I mustered up the courage to try it. I took the easy way in which was Jim Kibler's colonial kit. After a year of working on it on and off as I found time, it's finally complete (still finishing the ramrod...)! I've made many mistakes on it, but i definitely learned a lot. I think I'm ready to start researching for the next level challenge!

Those build videos, this forum, and some of the builders I actually got to meet and receive help from, Thank you!

[Dennis Glazener]

I don't disagree with this but you never know your limitation on something until you actually TRY! How many times have you shied away from doing something new, something different then finally tackled it and after you finished, said that wasn't as bad as I thought it would be? I have and bet you have too!
Dennis

[jerrywh]

If I even find the first rifle I built I am going to buy it and hide it. I have one I built 45 years ago and never show it to anybody except on time to Ron Scott. Ron said "you've come a long ways".
  About 22 years ago I asked Robert Evans to engrave my name on a pistol barrel.  He replied " why don't you do it yourself"?  I said I couldn't do it if my life depended on it. He relied" how do you know that"?  So he talked me into trying.  7 years later I was a master engrave in the FEGA.  My point is this. Nobody knows what he or she is capable of until they try.  If they won't try it's no use. Ignorance is voluntary.

[Clint]

I made my first rifle in 1971 and all I can say about it is that it discharged the ball and it hit what I was aiming at. At the age of 16 I 'carved 'it 'engraved 'it put inlays on all of the barrel pins and made the patchbox. It's long gone now and I will never be the rifle builder that some of the men on this forum are, but I love to build guns in the winter and it is the pleasure of building that I try to reveal to others. Anyone can buy a rifle and instantly "have" it, but the hours of planning, drying wood making locks and brass castings, making and sharpening chisels and all that goes into a building project are a whole experience. Kind of like growing a big garden and really enjoying the process. The "I can't do that" attitude makes me smile and I wonder what THEY would have said late in the summer of 1972 at Parris Island If I said "I don't think I can do That"