Author Topic: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added  (Read 7082 times)

Offline Wyoduster

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Re: And so it Begins.. Curly Sassafras Longrifle.
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2019, 06:41:58 PM »
With that placement you are going to have ton of extra wood in your forestock which will make for a really clunky looking gun. The wood alongside your barrel should be at the half flat height or less for a slender looking gun.
Thanks Eric but I haven't even touched the wood yet.. Maybe I do things a little bassackwards but I like to fit the barrel, the lock and even the trigger before i start making wood disappear. My thought is I'd rather have wood to cut than be too thin ... mistakes happen....(at least in my world) ;)

Offline smart dog

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Re: And so it Begins.. Curly Sassafras Longrifle.
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2019, 07:15:36 PM »
Hi Wyoduster,
We all have our own ways to skin the same cat.  I'll leave you with one maxim that I find important: "fit the hardware to the wood not the wood to the hardware". 

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: And so it Begins.. Curly Sassafras Longrifle.
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2019, 02:19:43 AM »
I leave some extra wood as well, not a lot but enough to make up for all those times I slip with a chisel or knock my gun off my work bench onto the floor (it has happened).

Offline Wyoduster

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2020, 02:15:57 AM »
New pictures added.. Got it done.. Thoughts?

Offline flehto

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2020, 02:49:46 AM »
To achieve a very slender Bucks County LR, I locate the 1/4 dia  White Lightning TH liner's top edge just short of the top corner of the bbl.'s  side flat. The top of the pan is then centered on the actual TH.   The top of the pan is above the top of the  forestock   which is somewhat below the bore center.  Have been doing this on all my BC builds and the function is not impaired in the least.  As can be  seen, the height of the lock area is very slender and this is also partly due to the 1/16" thick web at the breech. Also do this on the Lancasters I build, but not quite as much. Both LRs shown have  "B" weight bbls {1" width}.....Fred





« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 06:13:35 AM by flehto »

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2020, 03:21:56 AM »
Lots of extra wood under the lock and perhaps a little more lock panely definition would be nice.

Here is a late Ketland lock on a .40 I built, not much wood under the lock and added definition in the lock panels, my third gun. The touch hole on this gun is centered on the barrel flat, the top of the pan is at the sunset position to the hole, the barrel is 13/16". The white lightning liner has been filed flush.





« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 03:24:59 AM by Eric Krewson »

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2020, 03:53:49 AM »
Will that lock plate position interfere with the ramrod in some way

Offline flehto

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2020, 06:10:50 AM »
Hi.......had to grind a slight  45 degree angle on the non-moving  part of the mainspring so it missed the bbl.... nothing else had to be done......Fred

Offline Justin Urbantas

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2020, 07:12:54 AM »
It's really beautiful wood. Never would have guessed sassafrass. I  did notice on your gun that the forestock is a little square looking. One of the best things I have learned to make it a pleasing shape is to divide the forestock horizontally into 1/3 on top and 2/3 on bottom. You rasp/file/sand the top 1/3 to the edge of the barrel inet, and the bottom 2/3 to the edge of the ramrod groove/bottom of the stock. then take off the point, and round it slightly. This pic will give you an idea of what I mean.


Offline Top Jaw

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2020, 04:39:10 PM »
Nice final result on a unique piece of wood.  I knew there was some nice curl in that piece!

Offline smart dog

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2020, 05:28:22 PM »
New pictures added.. Got it done.. Thoughts?
Hi,
The wood has nice color.  Do you want constructive comments?

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Wyoduster

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2020, 12:57:24 AM »
New pictures added.. Got it done.. Thoughts?
Hi,
The wood has nice color.  Do you want constructive comments?

dave
Dave,
 Yea I'm a big boy .. and the only way to get better is to know what you did wrong... So please let me know.

Offline smart dog

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2020, 02:41:46 AM »
Hi Wyoduster,
No worries, I won't cause you any pain just offer suggestions. I urge you to first draw some plans showing how all the parts fit and the architecture of the gun you envision.  I know there are some highly skilled and experienced makers on this forum who can forgo that step. I cannot and rely on my plans and planning.  Remember my earlier maxim "fit the hardware to the stock not the stock to the hardware".  Don't let the metal parts determine what your gun will be and don't rush to install hardware on a still squared stock. There are several tasks that benefit from a squared stock: inletting the barrel, cutting the ramrod groove, drilling the ramrod hole, and drilling barrel pins and keys.  Even for those tasks it is best to trim the stock as much as you can.  No other tasks benefit from having a squared stock or a lot of excess wood. None. When you fit hardware too quickly many new builders end up with slab sided and misshapen guns. There are some who do this just fine but many new builders end up with a gun whose slab sided profile looks like a 2X4 with rounded corners.

Look at the examples others posted in this thread.  Fred and Eric's guns are good examples.  Look at them compared to yours. Their stocks are well rounded with beautiful contours.  The lock panels are thin and well shaped and the stock cross section is mostly round rather than rectangular with the corners rounded. The combs are well shaped and nicely blended into the wrists.  IMO the comb on your gun is too long and the shaping at the nose of the comb an wrist needs to be refined a lot.  Your wrist is also too short for the proportions of the butt stock.  Essentially, you finished your gun prematurely and it would have benefited from a lot more shaping and refinement. Here is a good example using a lock similar to yours. 




Ignore the carving and bling.  Just look at the shapes and contours, and how everything is kept round through the lock area and wrist except for the flat side panels.  Note that I kept many edges sharp and crisp rather than sanding them round. 
dave     
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 05:03:04 AM by smart dog »
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Wyoduster

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2020, 03:53:48 PM »
Smart Dog.... Thank you I do see exactly what your seeing now that I look at it  :-[ ... I have a ways to go and need all the help I can get. I do look at the wood and see what I want, but truthfully with no regard to style or architecture.  Guess I need to pause and think... As for lock panels ..I have a heck of a time trying to get them looking right.. whats the secret?

Offline smart dog

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2020, 02:23:58 AM »
Hi Wyoduster,
You are not alone at all with having trouble forming the lock panels.  We all have trouble in the beginning until we understand the best sequence of steps and can visualize how the contours should look. I teach this at Dixon's.  For me, the first step is my drawing of the gun.  That sets up the fit of parts and the final dimensions. Then I shed as much wood from the stock as I dare based on my drawings.  Next, when shaping the lock area and wrist from a squared stock, I let the lock panels form naturally as I round the wrist and lock area. Those areas are not flattened on the bottom and top with the corners rounded off.  Rather the lock area should look like a tennis ball with little flats cut in the sides for the lock and side plate. I am simplifying here because on some guns the top and bottom have slight concave profiles while on others they are fat balls.  It depends on your design.  In the process of shaping the round wrist and lock area, the lock panels form naturally. The only place where I cut them in with a gouge or chisel is the front of the lock.  The photos below show the profile I usually try to achieve.
 






Once the panels are formed, I leave them and mostly finish the gun.  Only when I am almost to the point of final scraping and sanding before stain, do I cut any lock panel moldings.  If you want cove moldings with a tight radius, you can still do that.  However, most original guns, at least from the 18th century, have moldings that largely conform to the general cross section of the stock.  Below are photos of original guns and those I made showing different lock moldings. The common thread is that all were shaped during the process of shaping the wrist and lock area, and no moldings were cut until the gun was almost ready for stain.

dave

 































« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 02:28:17 AM by smart dog »
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2020, 01:40:40 AM »
Sassafras . . . if it were mine, fear i"d end up chewing on it

Offline Robby

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2020, 02:33:58 AM »
A little hot water and it makes a good spring tonic, well the roots do, anyway.
Robby
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Offline WadePatton

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2020, 06:33:57 PM »
Sassafras . . . if it were mine, fear i"d end up chewing on it

Aye, but the planks aren't the tasty bits.  You want the bark of the roots when the sap is down. I have some right here, now that you mention it, I'll boil some up.  I snatch small saplings out of the ground and use their roots whole.
Hold to the Wind

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Curly Sassafras Longrifle. finished pics added
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2020, 07:30:25 PM »
That will be a very attractive rifle when done, and I am sure you will enjoy it.

Smart Dog - you want to engrave the tang on my "J & S Hawken St. Louis rifle"?  You have a good touch!
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.