Author Topic: Help with a few areas  (Read 873 times)

Offline Clear Spring Armory

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Help with a few areas
« on: January 13, 2020, 09:09:37 AM »
I kinda hate this gun. I really didn't want to build it for several reasons, especially not in percussion. But a guy wanted it and I figured it would be a good chance to build a "Golden Age" gun. I usually build mountain guns. I also know its a sacrilege to just loosely build with no particular maker or school in mind, but I was going for Lancaster or York. Also incorporating some of the lines of contemporary guns I've had the opportunity to see by some well known builders(I like them better than the originals, honestly) who seem to just build a gun the way they like. Pictures from books and the net only help so much, and most of the angles are profile or straight down. Mostly just wanted to see what some of you thought overall, and make suggestions of what you would do In a few spots.

I have made a few mistakes that are irreversible really. I think I may have taken too much off the cheek peice with the band saw, but I can add a bit of horn to raise it a bit. I cut the bottom profile a bit tight and the lock is really close to the bottom of the stock at the nose. And I'm not fooling with a second lock bolt, I'm gonna fake the front one, the web is really thin.

I drew straight lines to hopefully make the contours show up better and question marks in places I'm not sure about and drew "circles" around the areas in question. Of particular interest is how best to blend the wrist to the Butt stock where it also collides with the cheek piece and its concave shape.

Overall, I'm not displeased with what I have (although I feel like I've taken too much off in the Butt area for some reason) especially for my first time building this type of gun, but would like some input from the pros.

































« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 09:20:02 AM by Clear Spring Armory »

Offline Clear Spring Armory

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Re: Help with a few areas
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2020, 09:26:00 AM »







Offline BarryE

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Re: Help with a few areas
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2020, 07:34:30 PM »
Check your PM.

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Help with a few areas
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2020, 02:04:17 AM »
You are doing well there, Clear Spring.  Lots more wood to come off ahead of the wrist.  Think about egg shells,both in shape and in fragility.

If you take too much off the cheek rest, you can always put a plug of "Brown Mule" chaw tobacco between your right cheek and the gum line - that'll put you looking right down the sights again.  Really, tho, you are doing OK.
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

Offline Clear Spring Armory

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Re: Help with a few areas
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2020, 05:53:41 AM »
Craig, by "ahead" do you mean the buttplate end of the wrist or the lock panel end? I am thinking the area where the wrist blends into the buttstock and comb.

Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Help with a few areas
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2020, 06:08:55 AM »
Iím not an expert but Iíve studied lots of reference material and have made a few cracks at it.   To my eye, something is wonky with your cheek piece placement.  It may be a little low or just not following the right line.  Let an expert chime in on that. Your lock panels could be shaped a littler better and tightened up more. Other than that,  it looks like you are well on your way and have plenty of wood to play with.  You may run into some ďfiguring outĒ when you go to fitting your set triggers for proper operation but to me,  it looks like you have plenty of room. 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 06:14:24 AM by Mike Lyons »

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Help with a few areas
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2020, 06:35:06 PM »
I wouldn't think about drawing lock panels until I had the lock inletted and in place.

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Help with a few areas
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2020, 07:01:56 PM »
Sean, think about both ahead and astern of the wrist.  LR's are very slender, graceful things. If you can, take a look at some of the old ones.

I think it was Mr. Brooks who said "Take off wood, then take more off."
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

Offline Clear Spring Armory

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Re: Help with a few areas
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2020, 03:49:27 AM »
I wouldn't think about drawing lock panels until I had the lock inletted and in place.
Its in, check the first few pictures. Probably got lost Tryon to wade through the zillions of pictures. I got a bit carried away.

Offline Clear Spring Armory

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Re: Help with a few areas
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2020, 03:53:12 AM »
Yes, Barry mentiomed the cheek piece too. Part of it is the molding I roughed in on the bottom of it, but I looked around last night at some pictures amd compared them to mine, and I realize now it is a bit low. I'm gonna get right on that. You guys are great, and a big help. Anymore advise is appreciated.

Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Help with a few areas
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2020, 04:34:41 AM »
Go through some of Taylorís, brooks, kibler, Pratt, Martin, barker, Curtis, Rase and others posts who are known to make perfect rifles and look at the pictures and key in on the advice they give. The RCA books and KRA disks are great for referencing too.  Shows give you the opportunity to handle rifles and talk to makers which is priceless.   I have a friend who bought a kibler SMR and colonial rifle just to use as a reference piece for building his rifles.  He only builds personal rifles but man do they turn out nice. 

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Help with a few areas
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2020, 07:55:30 AM »
the first thing that jumped out at me was the rear end of your lock and counterplate panels.  They should terminate at or BELOW the centre line of the wrist, not above it as they are currently.  You can still adjust that by removing wood from the top of the panel...the lock position looks fine.
You have lots of cheek piece.  It can be better defined by cutting a straight line along the bottom that is on the same plane as the stock from the toe to the wrist.  Looking at the stock from the bottom, the cheek piece should appear to be laid on top of the stock.  In other words, the stock should taper from the butt plate forward to the lock panels interrupted by the cheek piece.  Cut the lower moulding of the cheek piece straighter into the stock, getting rid of the gentle slope.  That will bring the bottom line of the cheek piece up from the toe line without removing any of the height of the cheep piece from the stock.
Do not think about cutting lines along the comb to accentuate the wrist or the comb, unless you're looking for the Brown Bess look.  The way it is right now is just fine, although  you could remove move wood to slim it up a lot.
Your butt plate screw is too high in the butt plate.  It should be around 1 1/4" from the toe, not in the middle of the crescent.  I had that problem with the little percussion rifle I finished up this past fall...the builder had drilled the hole in about the same place you did.  I drilled it out to 1/2" and plugged it with brass  rod, and drilled it for the screw 1 1/4" from the toe.
You've done well to draw your parallel lines on the wood...they tell you whether you have the butt stock symmetrical on both sides. 
Round off the tip of the comb at the junction of the wrist...yours is a sharp corner there.
You could diminish the height of your wrist at the transition too.  Your wrist gets thicker as it goes to the comb.  Once you've done that, you can cut down the top of the comb just a bit so that a straight edge along the comb from the heel of the butt plate does not go uphill.  A subtle convex curve on the comb line is better than a dip. 
Do not be in a hurry with this.  You are wise to stop and ask at this stage.  I often go back many times throughout a build and take away more wood, even after I thought I was 'there'. 
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline smart dog

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Re: Help with a few areas
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2020, 03:25:57 PM »
Hi Sean,
It will be a very attractive gun.  However, it screams "southern mountain rifle" to me not Lancaster or York.  The comb is too narrow and too low and subtle at its end.  You definitely have wood to play with at the wrist and beginning of the butt stock.  The photos below show a Lancaster rifle I built from a Chambers "Haines" kit.  I think Jim profiled the stock quite well for a classic "golden age" Lancaster gun and it should give you some sense of the shaping of a gun from that place and time.












dave
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