Author Topic: long barrel  (Read 3954 times)

Offline vanu

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Re: long barrel
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2020, 05:15:23 AM »
Arne Hoff in "Dutch Firearms" discusses these arms on pp.193-196 (Chapter IX). Historic records verify that these long barreled arms were used for ducks/swans and other waterfowl. The most prevalent period of production was the mid-17th century and from Utreck or Mastreck the long barrel form 2.5 -3m carried through the early 18th century and is considered the antecedent of the Hudson River long fowler. Basically these were specifically designed to carry a large load of shot with commiserate large charge of powder; the bore was up to 20mm or more.

Bruce

Offline Tanselman

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Re: long barrel
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2020, 06:08:07 AM »
Most punt guns I have seen have a much larger bore than what this gun appears to have. When the picture is enlarged, the muzzle appears much smaller than the breech...good for a heavy charge, but seems very small bore for a large amount of shot. Do we know the size of the bore on this gun? Was it made for long range shooting at a single bird??? Doesn't seem to be the typical "scatter gun" punt gun that brings down multiple birds with one shot. Shelby Gallien

Offline Adrie luke

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Re: long barrel
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2020, 04:08:44 PM »
Jan Knoop Measures.
Materiaal
wortelnotenhout,
 ijzer

 .Techniek

solderen / graveren (inkerven) / snijden
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Afmetingen
geheel: l 287,8 cm
loop: l 250,1 cm
kaliber: d 14,9 mm

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: long barrel
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2020, 07:22:54 PM »
the longer barrel make it so it holds more "swan shot"  ::) ;D 
 
I think those old market hunters were not afraid of shooting across the water at sitting birds. or being in a position to fire a shot, just at as the flock started to raise off the
water way?

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: long barrel
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2020, 10:44:30 PM »
"Punt Guns" were used by market hunters in the Chesapeake Bay - the boats men would go out at night and find a raft of sleeping ducks and slay several dozen for the market at Baltimore, MD.  A good description of this type hunting can be found in Michener's "Chesapeake".

As for "punt boats", they are still in use on shallow rivers and streams in Great Britain.  When we lived there back in the early '50's, my Dad would take us "punting" in the vicinity of Cambridge for a day's recreation.  They are generally long slender craft, flat bottomed, and propelled by the puntsman using a "punt pole" to send the craft on it's way.  No idea if the same boats were used in duck hunting, but the Brits traditionally being a weird group, it was probably done.
Craig Wilcox
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Offline Tanselman

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Re: long barrel
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2020, 11:45:44 PM »
If I read the "'technical" posting above correctly, the gun's bore, or caliber, is 14.9 mm, which when converted is between a .58 and .59 inch bore...still seems small for a market gun, and more set up for a tighter pattern a good distance out.  Shelby Gallien

Offline Bob McBride

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Re: long barrel
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2020, 11:53:07 PM »
Considering the bore size I’m wondering if it wasn’t built as a curiosity. If you click the pic, there’s a fairly high resolution pic behind it and I see no signs of wear or otherwise out on the fore that would indicate mounted use. I suppose it could have been fired over the shoulder of a second but to what end I can’t imagine.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 11:56:09 PM by Bob McBride »

Offline James Rogers

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Re: long barrel
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2020, 12:26:42 AM »
This is not a punt gun as its made for shoulder fire. This is not a market gun as the bore is too small for flock shooting. This is a sporting gun for taking swans one by one in the marshes.  Their style is based on what they knew about balistics at the time as well as what they didnt know.

Duck guns for shoulder fire of a little larger bore were used in England in the 18th century.  Here is a period write-up comparing and contrasting the duck (waterfowling) gun with the fowling or birding piece.

Duck Guns vs. Fowling Pieces in the 18th Century

...The circumstance of a duck-gun killing at a greater distance than a fowling piece, is not owing to its length, but to its- greater weight and thickness allowing the charge of powder to be doubled, trebled, or even quadrupled, which cannot be done in a fowling piece though strongly reinforced. For a barrel of five or six feet, such as that of a common duck-gun, weighing five or six pounds, and the whole piece  twelve or thirteen pounds ; may be  fired with a very large charge, without  recoiling so much as to hurt the shooter,  its weight being sufficient to resist the  violent impulse occasioned by the in-  crease of the powder. But in a fowling piece of three feet barrel, sufficiently strong to withstand such a charge, and whose weight altogether does not exceed five or six pounds, the recoil would be insupportable. Be- fides, they not only double or treble the powder in a duck-gun, but they put in a much greater quantity of shot than is ever employed in a fowling piece*. * Duck-guns are generally bent a little upwards near the muzzle, which, the gunsmiths say, makes them throw their shot farther than if they were perfectly straight. To obtain, therefore, from a piece of  the ordinary length, the fame effects  as from a duck-gun, nothing more,  perhaps, is necessary than to have the  barrel sufficiently strong to admit of  the charge being doubled or trebled as  required, and the whole piece heavy  enough to render the recoil support-  able. We may here observe, however,  that an increase of the powder above  the charge generally used, does not produce a proportional increase of range  in the ball or mot: thus a double  charge of powder will not throw the,  ball or shot to twice the distance, nor  a treble charge to three times the distance,  the single charge does. This arises from the great resistance given by the air to the motion of the ball or shot, and which is proved to be fourfold if the velocity be doubled, and nine fold when it is trebled by an increase of the powder. So great is the change in opinion of  late, with regard to the proper length  for gun barrels, that many gunsmiths  will now tell us, that short barrels carry  farther than long ones ; and the reason  they give for this, is, the greater friction  of the ball or shot in passing  through a long barrel, by which their  velocity is retarded and their force  diminished. If the barrel be so long  that the additional impulse which the  ball or shot is continually receiving in  its passage, becomes less than the friction  between them and the fides of the  caliber, then, indeed, the barrel by  being shortened will shoot with more  force : but as the length of barrel required  to produce this effect, is vastly  greater than can ever be employed for  any purpose, the objection does not Having now, we hope, thrown every  light upon this question, that is necessary to determine us in our choice of  the length, it will, perhaps, be expected,  that we give our opinion, what  length of barrel is best calculated for  general use. The barrels which we ourselves employ, and which we have found to answer best for every purpose are from 32 to 38 inches; and whether we consult the appearance of the piece, its lightness, or the ease with which it is managed, we believe that a barrel not exceeding the one, or below the other of these numbers, is the most eligible.

An Essay on Shooting, Edie, 1789

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: long barrel
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2020, 02:54:10 PM »
 Thanks for posting that James, good read. I especially liked "Duck-guns are generally bent a little upwards near the muzzle, which, the gunsmiths say, makes them throw their shot farther than if they were perfectly straight" Explains why I can't hit the little buggers:)

  Tim

Offline smokinbuck

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Re: long barrel
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2020, 05:56:29 PM »
Maybe what I have is a "duck" gun. 72" barrel in 20 gauge. Weight at 11#. Haven't used shot but have shot round ball.
Mark