Pistols, common or uncommon

[MuskratMike]

I know the pistol was a common weapon on board ships of war, foot officers and on horse mounted military units of the 18th century. But just how common do you all think they were for colonial militia, Rangers, long hunters, and settlers? I just don't find much written about them leading me to believe they just weren't that common. Any ideas or knowledge out there? If you have imput do you think they were mostly smooth bore or rifled?

[Bob McBride]

I know the pistol was a common weapon on board ships of war, foot officers and on horse mounted military units of the 18th century. But just how common do you all think they were for colonial militia, Rangers, long hunters, and settlers? I just don't find much written about them leading me to believe they just weren't that common. Any ideas or knowledge out there? If you have imput do you think they were mostly smooth bore or rifled?

I think in civilian life they were purchased and used where necessary, just as in the 19th, 20th, or dare I say, the 21st century. Wherever you needed a CQB weapon. Gamblers, highwaymen, tavern owners in rough country, gentlemen who liked the other side of the tracks or who were prone to confrontation. If affordable, a last line of defense weapon in a frontier cabin, I’m sure there were a few in Boonesboro but not many. Smoothbore I would say. Loaded with buck shot in perhaps half the cases. Just a guess. They were certainly a luxury I would think. We often lose sight of the obvious, waiting for the documentation. They were no different than us. Not one wit different.

[Daryl]

I tested buck and ball loads in my .54 pistol with amazing results at 12 yards.  The 3 buckshot always radiated evenly
around the round ball. and all stayed on a standard silhouette at that range. This was from a rifled barrel and the main ball
always struck in the 10 ring. Heck of a good self-defense gun, I'd say.

[Ugly Old Guy]

My understanding is that for the "average" civilians, they were somewhat rare. (at least pre-civil war)
Cost to obtain, and a "lack of accuracy" (not quotes) were the main reasons.
(Then as now, some folk just cannot hit the broad side of a barn - when inside the barn - with a handgun. Sadly, some folk suffer the same malady with a rifle and/or shotgun. My mum, for one.)
 
Most folk just went with a ("a" as in "singular") long gun and called it "good".

[MuskratMike]

Daryl: what load and ball size did you use? Over powder and over shot cards or did you use tow?

[Elnathan]

There was a brief discussion of this over at the Muzzleloading forum some years back, and Spence10 found a couple of references to pistols in the hands of travelers contained in Running Mad for Kentucky, including a guy that was armed with, IIRC, a sword, two braces of pistols, and a rifle; another guy who was mounted and armed with a brace of pistols and a sword but no longarm; and a group of travelers in which the women were armed with pistols and stood guard at night with their husbands.

From this we can conclude that they were present out along the transappalachian frontier, at least from the Revolutionary period onwards. I think that all those references came from the 1776-1794 period, in which the Whites and Indians were at war, and none of them were folks out hunting or engaged in everyday tasks - they are all (as the title suggests) accounts of people traveling from East of the Appalachians into Kentucky.

I own a copy of this book, but it is currently in storage.

[Daryl]

Daryl: what load and ball size did you use? Over powder and over shot cards or did you use tow?

I actually loaded a patched ball .526" of pure lead, with 3 .030" buck shot on top with a card over those. Charge was the normal charge reduced by 10gr. so 45gr. 3F.
The bl. has a 60" twist, so needs the large charge to get it to shoot. With the 55gr. 3F load, it shoots very well indeed. Best so far is 2 1/2" at 50 yards,
but usual is about 3".

[Clark Badgett]

Trade pistols were made. That should tell you all you need to know.

[Bob McBride]

Trade pistols were made. That should tell you all you need to know.

Yup. Pistols don't show up in my diary, but i have a houseful of them....

[moleeyes36]

I tested buck and ball loads in my .54 pistol with amazing results at 12 yards.  The 3 buckshot always radiated evenly
around the round ball. and all stayed on a standard silhouette at that range. This was from a rifled barrel and the main ball
always struck in the 10 ring. Heck of a good self-defense gun, I'd say.

I always figured a very large caliber smoothbore flintlock pistol loaded with #1 buck and a stout charge of powder was an excellent self defense weapon for an up close “street encounter”.  If a look at the very large hole in the end of the barrel doesn’t make the perps decide jumping you is a bad idea, just touch it off.  Those that aren’t “perforated” will probably be rolling on the ground, crying like babies and swatting at their burning clothes.  By the time the smoke clears and any of them can get up, you can be down the street and around a corner. 

Never mess with old people.  They aren’t able to fight and will just shoot you.

Mole Eyes

[WadePatton]

I tested buck and ball loads in my .54 pistol with amazing results at 12 yards.  The 3 buckshot always radiated evenly
around the round ball. and all stayed on a standard silhouette at that range. This was from a rifled barrel and the main ball
always struck in the 10 ring. Heck of a good self-defense gun, I'd say.

I always figured a very large caliber smoothbore flintlock pistol loaded with #1 buck and a stout charge of powder was an excellent self defense weapon for an up close “street encounter”.  If a look at the very large hole in the end of the barrel doesn’t make the perps decide jumping you is a bad idea, just touch it off.  Those that aren’t “perforated” will probably be rolling on the ground, crying like babies and swatting at their burning clothes.  By the time the smoke clears and any of them can get up, you can be down the street and around a corner. 

Never mess with old people.  They aren’t able to fight and will just shoot you.

Mole Eyes

Yes.  A large cloud of fire and smoke also makes room for a fellow to draw his edged weapon, which never requires reloading-if that's what needs to happen.


Bob.  Indeed.

[wattlebuster]

I would imagine it would be a welcome fast backup shot if you missed with your longarm or maybe more than one target. Cant say how common they were but I can say I would have carried one if at all possible. The one pictured below goes with me on every hunt just incase of a bad shot or some fluke thing happens. Mine is made by Joe Schell. 62 cal smoothbore
[img width= height= alt=014" border="0]https://preview.ibb.co/hUehpa/014.jpg[/img]

[borderdogs]

I like that diary comment! I am a better rifle shot than pistol but I own a lot more pistols and I carry a pistol everyday. It would be hard to put yourself back then but if I were living then I would have carried one. Not all pistols were large and depending on the situation accuracy wouldnt have to be great at close range. I never fired a flint or percussion pistol with buck and ball but boy that would work well against a highwayman, street thug, or Indian......
Rob

[MuskratMike]

This is mine. Lowell Haarer made, 13-inch Rice swamped .54 caliber with a Chambers Late Ketland lock. Not easily concealed or even carried, but can't wait to try that buck and ball load. Ones like this were probably carried on the pommel of the horse or tucked in the belt or sash. Also those who shoot only patched round balls in .54 caliber what is your load? I never have claimed to be a pistol shot and need to improve the accuracy. What distance can you expect reasonable results from?

[Daryl]

Daryl: what load and ball size did you use? Over powder and over shot cards or did you use tow?

I actually loaded a patched ball .526" of pure lead, with 3 .030" buck shot on top with a card over those. Charge was the normal charge reduced by 10gr. so 45gr. 3F.
The bl. has a 60" twist, so needs the large charge to get it to shoot. With the 55gr. 3F load, it shoots very well indeed. Best so far is 2 1/2" at 50 yards,
but usual is about 3".

Mike, like I said, with patched round ball, 55gr. 3F. This pistol also has a .45 calibre fast twist barrel that I use 25gr.3F in for target work.  When shooting the 200gr. REAL bullet in that
.45, I use 30gr. 3F. That load will shoot 1" off bags, at 25 yards.

[borderdogs]

I have known muzzleloader hunters that have carried a pistol as a "just in case" back up. I wonder back in the day if that was common in hunting situations?
Rob

[WadePatton]

I don't know how common they actually were BITD, but the auction houses appear to have a lot of them these days.  Perhaps they had a higher survival rate than long guns-being easier to hide or put away and less valuable for scrap and not seeing as much use as long guns. 

Here's a pile of 'em: https://www.invaluable.com/antique-flintlock-pistols/sc-PA6JAMBEUG/

And that's not the only pile of them out there on the auction blocks.

[OldMtnMan]

I'd want one if fighting Indians. Maybe two.

[45-110]

We have a nice recovered British flint pistol in our local Montana museum. The tag info said it was found under a sandstone overhang along the banks of the the Musselshell river years ago. I need to go back and get some measurements maybe for another build. As I recall it was a Wogdon and had a brass barrel.

[alacran]

Muskrat, I have a .54 flint rifled pistol. It does very well with 30 grains of Goex 2f.  First time I shot it I used 40 grains of Goex 3f and that was way too much recoil. Mind you I shoot pistol with one hand.

[Hungry Horse]

 I believe that the western expansion of this country, following the return of the Lewis and Clark expedition, marked the beginning of pistols being considered important. Another big uptick in the importance of handguns came with the gold rush in California.

  Hungry Horse

[Kevin]

Greetings Everyone,

The published journal of James Smith of "Black Boys" fame includes info on a confrontation on the road near Bedford (PA) which describes him  being stopped by what seems to be at least 2 fellows with pistols.  One of which was snapped at him but it didn't go off.  Another one was fired and killed another traveler.  Smith responded with his rifle but was taken after it was empty.  This was in the late 1750s or the 1760s.

I would have to consult my bookshelves at home for a closer date.

Kevin

[Water Sheltie]

Believe the Spanish were big on their Soldiers and Militia having pistols, also seemed to prefer the short sword or machete to the tomahawk.

[Justin Urbantas]

I like the idea of an overcoat pistol like this one. Big bore .58-.70 caliber, and easy to conceal with a 5"  barrel. Big ball at close range stops problems in a hurry

[MuskratMike]

 Close range and very close range.