Please identify this stock pattern

[Dennis Glazener]

A friend of mine bought this stock while at Dixon's and we failed to asked what style rifle it is. Before he can select the rest of the parts he needs to know what style it is.




What lock should be used and what buttplate and trigger guard.

Thanks
Dennis

[Eric Laird]

Dennis,
Does that have a slight stepwrist to it, or enough wood to make one?  The first thing that popped to mind when I looked at it was the Isaac Berlin smooth rifle with the thumbnails on the buttplate and triggerguard (probably entrypipe, too, but I don't remember). I think Reeves has all the furniture.

With those straight lines, it could probably be made into any of a multitude of Lancaster/York/Lebanon styles - all depends on what your friend wants.

Sorry that's not much help. If it was for the Berlin gun, let me know. I've got the full size drawings around here somewhere. I could dig them up and drop them off next time I'm over that way.
Eric

[Dennis Glazener]

Eric,
Thanks for the info, I don't know what style it is. I told my friend the same thing you did that he could always rework it into a Lancaster style.

I doesn't appear to be a step wrist but you could probably work one into it.

Thanks
Dennis

[Sean]

It looks like the generic 1790-1820 Lancaster pattern to me.

Sean 

[G-Man]

The butt looks wide enough and high enough to me to make about anything you want with realtively straight architecture, or just slight curve - a Dickert, Shroyer etc.   Probably would not work well for a style with  severe curve to the comb and toe and a lot of drop.

It could work for an early Lancaster, Virginia, York, etc. or even a really nice 1790-1820 southern rifle if you remove enough wood. I.e. to me it sort of begs to be a nice Joseph Bogle or similar style early Tennessee gun..there is enough meat there in the stock to give it a bit of cast off...

Guy

[billd]

Who did he buy it from?  

Bill

[rsells]

Dennis,
It looks like one of Tip's Lancaster pattern to me.  However the front of the comb is very slightly different than the ones I purchased from him in the past to build Issic Haines type rifles or something similiar to the Bivins Lancaster rifles.
                                                                  Roger Sells

[Dennis Glazener]

Who did he buy it from? 

Bill

He got it from Rich Dillion and I am sure Rich will answer the question when he gets home from Dixon's. He wanted to start rounding up all the other parts and I told him to lets first find out what style it is. I assumed he could make most any Lancaster style rifle but he has access to a early Ketland lock and I was not sure that early lock would go with that pattern. I suspect he would be better to get a Siler or similar lock and go with a generic Lancaster style rifle.

Dennis

[billd]

Rich's phone number is on his website. He does have some of his own designed patterns.
Bill

[G-Man]

The distance from the pan to the sear on the Early Ketland is longer than a Siler, so will result in your trigger sitting maybe 1/4 to 3/8 inch farther back than with a Siler, but since the butt is not cut yet,  it is not an issue with pull length.  So I think the early Ketland would be fine as long it fits the mortise area. Since the stock does not have a ton of drop through the wrist, I would think the longer tail would still end up sitting about the right height.

How wide is the butt - it looks big enough for a 1780s-90s gun.  Bill Shipman's Miller's Blockhouse rifle (I really love that rifle) he showed on here and also on his website is based on a 1780 era Ferree rifle and uses a modified early Ketland.  Personally, I like the look of those big locks with the larger early Lancaster style guards.

Looks like a nice stock pattern - I like the position of the cheekpiece - gives you some room to work - too many have the cheek sitting so far back, it ends up too far back after you cut the buttplate in.


Guy

[Dennis Glazener]

How wide is the butt - it looks big enough for a 1780s-90s gun.

Guy the butt is about 1 7/8 inch which I would think would be ok for an early rifle.

I have some early style Lancaster and VA BP and TG's so I will let him look through my RCA book's and find an early rifle that he likes. Looks to be plenty of wood to turn it into anything he wants it to be.

Thanks
Dennis

[G-Man]

1 and 7/8 inch should be wide enough for a 1780s gun.  Might want to check the thickness of the wood on the lock side to make sure it is enough for the bolster on the Early Ketland.

You know - another piece that jumps out at me as something you could build from that pattern is the Conrad Humble rifle shown on Mel Hankla's website - depends on whether you want to take some wood off the top or the bottom.  The architecture is close and the original looks to have a late 1770s-early 1780s era English trade lock on it.   Provided it fits, I think the Chambers Early Ketland would look great, especially with some modification by filing like the Bill Shipman gun I was referring to.  

Mr. Shipman's website has some great examples of modified Early Ketland locks.  There are so many folks making Lancaster style guns, but Bill's never look generic!

Guy

[rdillon]

How wide is the butt - it looks big enough for a 1780s-90s gun.

Guy the butt is about 1 7/8 inch which I would think would be ok for an early rifle.

I have some early style Lancaster and VA BP and TG's so I will let him look through my RCA book's and find an early rifle that he likes. Looks to be plenty of wood to turn it into anything he wants it to be.

Thanks
Dennis

I use this to make alot of things.  Can make a pseudo reading/lehigh valley or an Early Lancaster.  It's easy to alter this stock for a variety or schools.  Lots of wood left to remove!!!!!!!!

Dennis you should have my # if not it's 484-357-2874  I can fill you in more.

[Dennis Glazener]

Rich,
Thanks for the info. Marshall decided to go with an early Lancaster style and I think he is going to use an early Ketland flintlock. I have 4 or 5 of Reaves BP's ad TG's so he can pick which one he likes and work the stock down to fit it.

He is working on the barrel/tang now. His first attempt so he will have fun!

Thanks
Dennis

[G-Man]

Rich - that's a nice stock pattern.

Dennis - sounds like your friend is getting some good advice from you and he will end up with a piece that will have the benefit of not looking like a kit gun.  There are many fine kit guns out there, but it is nice to mix up the hardware, locks and stock shaping a bit to make something unique.

Best regards

Guy