British trade gun

[wabeek]

There is what appears to be a 'chief's grade' American Indian trade gun set for auction Feb. 8 in Canada as shown by Miller & Miller Auctions Ltd..  The photos though sparse are helpful.  The description recites some restoration but nothing alarming (I think).  Ketland flintlock!  Canadian $ estimates but don't know commission,  'goods & services' tax, etc..  Always worth studying however.

[rich pierce]

[WESTbury]

Hopefully, Joe Puleo will weigh in on this.

[JTR]

Looks like a perfectly good example of a Chiefs grade trade gun to me, and has all the right things in the right places.
One question would be what restoration was done and to what degree. To me, restoration is no big deal to me if done well and not used to make something out of something it isn't.
Even the estimate looks fair.

[realtorone]

John Do you know anything about the three Leaf design on the breech plug? I have several long guns with that not only on the breech plug but also on the front portion of the trigger guard and butt plate . A percussion pistol with a umbrella shaped handle. 54 cal .US 1836 Barrel.That has the design several places

George Hebling

[WESTbury]

Most Ketland made arms, pistols, muskets, and fowlers have that three leaf design on many components.

[JTR]

George, As I understand it, a trident was the mark the British put on weapons signifying government ownership.  Like Westbury has shown this three leaf design is generally on many parts and might well be a representation of the trident mark, whether put there by government inspectors, or not.
John

PS, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong! 
 

[wabeek]

I believe the '3 leaves' are stylized feathers representing the Prince of Wales. They will appear on the tang, some of the brass furnishings, in this example on the Ketland lock, and will appear in a more primitive form as the front final of the trigger guard also as seen here.  Photos of the side plate, front sight from above and the ramrod out of it's channel would be nice, however everything shown suggests those too will be right.  A cool trade gun, early and maybe out of eastern Canada!!  Iroquois???

[WESTbury]

three leaf design is generally on many parts and might well be a representation of the trident mark, whether put there by government inspectors, or not.
 

The "trident" is actually the British Broad Arrow government ownership mark. See page 14 of The Brown Bess by Stuart Mowbray and Erik Goldstein published in 2010 by Mowbray Publishing. The Broad Arrow is very definitely not the same as the three leaf design decoration found on Ketland arms.

[realtorone]

Thanks to all for the info
,although the  pistol is made from a US M 1836 barrel converted to percussion with all civilian pistol parts, Really a nice looking gun although heavy and holds funny with the pistol grip turning under.  Makes me think of Louisiana manuf.
George.

[JV Puleo]

The mark on the lockplate is the Ordnance storekeepers mark and it is government proved. It is one of the Indian trade muskets supplied by the Ketlands to the Ordnance office. I have the exact figures and dates but they are at home and I'm in the office. The "tulip" design on the lockplate and barrel tang is almost certainly meaningless...it appears on a lot of guns that were made in the Birmingham trade. By this time no Ketlands were involved in the manufacture of anything beyond the possible assembly of parts in their Whittal Street warehouse.

jp