Author Topic: What's the best kit gun (Read 6206 times)

recurve · « **on:** February 10, 2020, 02:09:35 AM »

For the beginner builder what's the best kit gun(other than Kibler )
I would like a late Lancaster or York style (around 7lb) with a swamped .50-.54 with radius rifling 38-42 length, siler Late Ketland Flintlock and davis double set trigger golden age1008 or 1019early and p+ maple full stock, w iron or brass furniture (patch box optional )

bob in the woods · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2020, 02:27:11 AM »

When you ask about kit guns, other than Kibler, the only ones I know off who make kits for the guns you specified are Cabin Creek [ Brad Emig ] and Jim Chambers. Track of the Wolf has some kits which may interest you, but I much prefer the authenticity of the others I mentioned. None of these are "snap together" kits and will require some degree of skill /work on your part, however it's entirely possible to end up with a nice rifle. There was another kit supplier who together with kits, also had rifles in the white, and the selection of styles /schools available was extensive, but I can't remember the name at the moment. I'm sure someone else here will know.

smallpatch · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2020, 07:55:50 AM »

Chambers is the best for that type of kit, however, you shouldn't use an English lock on a Germanic gun.

bob in the woods · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2020, 04:34:30 PM »

That's why I made a point about Chambers providing a historically correct kit. All the parts are appropriate for the time and style of gun. I have a real gripe about a particular "fowler" kit which uses a Virginia rifle butt plate.

BillF/TRF · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2020, 07:04:20 PM »

I would also highly recommend Jim Chambers kits. I am just finishing one of his York County rifle kits. The kit comes with inletting for the lock and barrel started, the ramrod hole is done and the general stock shape is there. You will still need to do a fair amount of fitting and finishing. Mine is a .45 cal (no York County kit is available over 50 cal.), siler lock, brass patchbox (optional). 42" tapered and flared octagon barrel, 7 3/4 lbs., and the rest of the specs can be accessed on line or from their catalog. I have been very happy with the kit! All I need now is a little more practice on my engraving skills and when that is done, I'll post some pictures here.

Scota4570 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2020, 07:51:49 PM »

Why reject Kibler's out of hand. They are the "best" kits made. If you judge by wood to metal fit, lock quality, brass casting quality, and so on, they are in a whole different league. Assembling one will teach you how a long rifle should be made. Unless you really try hard to mess it up you will have a great rifle in the end.

Others are good too, particularly Chamber's. They require more skill and experience to get right.

The parts sets with a rough turned stocks, like Track and others can be problematic. Sometimes the stocks are not usable due to turning errors. Without experience you will not figure it out soon enough to send it back. Sometimes it is easier to built from a plank. You can spend more time messing around with wonkie stock carvings than you would building from a plank. Definitely do not get one with the lock inlet done for you. Those parts sets also require specialized tools you will have to buy or make.

WadePatton · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2020, 08:14:39 PM »

Quote from: smallpatch on February 10, 2020, 07:55:50 AM

Chambers is the best for that type of kit, however, you shouldn't use an English lock on a Germanic gun.

Yes, do your research and do not buy a kit (they are out there) with the wrong lock for someone who is historically inclined. Seems ALL the makers of "Tennessee" or "SMR" kits include a Germanic lock, but you'll be VERY hard pressed to find any originals with such lock.

Do it right. The wrong lock on any style gun will scream to the high-hills of those who study these things that you assembled a kit, and didn't understand what an original looks like.

Mr. Chambers will supply you a correct lock, and most of the kit sellers will substitute a correct lock for you, IF you know to ask. And now you know. Best of luck and welcome.

on re-read I see "siler late ketland" I'm not sure what that is.

Oh, so they make an English externals with Siler internals--that's different. No big whoop on internals. It's the pan and plate and cock that must be correct. "Siler" generally refers to a Germanic lock, and it wrong on a gun school that utilized English locks. Ketland is of course, an English lock.

I'm no student of the school specified, so I'm not arguing for one or the other for your application. You have to know which is proper.

I never bought a kit.

recurve · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2020, 08:21:53 PM »

I would like a late golden age rifle at 7pounds or less thinner/ hander in the woods 38inch than my early Lancaster 44 getz barrelat 91/2 lb .50 . If kibler had southern 50 I'd buy it.

577SXS · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2020, 08:50:51 PM »

Sounds like you need an Issac Haines style. I've built a Chambers Edward Marshall with 37 inch barrel and love it. It is kinda heavy though but balance is great. The Issac Haines kit from Chambers looked too light for me. I'm getting ready to start a Issac Haines with a 38 inch D wt barrel from a blank that will be rough carved so I can do all lock inlet work myself. Seems like every kit I've gotten has lock position off a little bit and I'm tired of that.

recurve · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2020, 09:56:21 PM »

well I just pulled up the little fellow chambers nearly everything(34 inch barrel )but need a slightly longer trigger pull 5'10" & golden age set trgger(use to be 5'11"age shirkage ) a ageing hunters gun

recurve · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2020, 10:31:31 PM »

Beck Boys Rifle Pecatonica River Long Rifle Supply, Inc. any one use there kits?

Stoner creek · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2020, 10:45:05 PM »

Anything from the good folks at CVA! About as beginner e-z as a feller could want!!!

smallpatch · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2020, 11:19:38 PM »

One we haven't considered is Dunlap Woodcraft Isaac Haines kit. With a B weight 50, it should come in where you want it.
It is an Early Lancaster however. Nice wide buttplate. Real nice gun.

General · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2020, 11:59:08 PM »

Recurve, I've purchased 4 of their kits and they have treated me well. I'm no expert so I cannot tell you if they are totally accurate but they work for what I'm doing. The last one should deliver today and I ordered it with more wood to play with since I also ordered a .54 cal barrel.
I ordered one from a different company that I found online but will never do that again. It cost me an extra $300 which was ok at the time because I needed it right then before vacation and Pecatonica couldn't get it out that quick. Live ad learn. I was brand new to this and didn't know the difference. The lock as stated was wrong, the stock had a couple cracks in it and some other things were wrong.
Do what you're doing here and get as much information as you can before you commit. Prices have gone up and for what I paid for this last one you could almost get a Kibler kit but I did order a very nice piece of wood, along with the .54 cal barrel to set in it.
My first one was a CVA kit from Sportsman warehouse

which is now my wifes. Good straight shooter but, you know. $:-\$
Good luck with your first build. It is fun.

B.Barker · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2020, 01:00:24 AM »

I have to politely disagree with Germanic guns and English locks. German made guns yes but not so much with American rifles. Oerter used English round face lock at least once and many late 18th and early 19th century Pennsylvania rifle have English export locks. The early rifles from Pennsylvania usually don't have English locks but some did. The early rifles may have had replaced locks but I dodn't think all are.

recurve · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2020, 07:56:35 PM »

Ok first THANKs for all the input .
I went for a ride to York county to Cabin Creek Muzzle loaders

what a great place for spending time & $ ! I got to handle their York rifle and a surprise contender the Mountain Rifle . The York is everything I want, But with a straight barrel 39inch square bottom rifleing (but 7pounds

)
The Mountain rifle they handed me is not nearly as fancy BUT with the swamped barrel round bottom rifleing and single trigger

also Under 7 pounds but feels and balanced much nicer than the York slightly muzzle heave . trigger was crisp no creep and broke very nicely ( I wish I could get the York with the mountain barrel, they said no)
Now a new twist they have Colerain barrels and suggested Gain twist (That blew my mind, having Green mnt 1-70 and gezt 1-66 ) starts at 1-96 and ends at 1-48 just when I had some things settled . Does any one have a mountain rifle ?
Any one have a gain twist rifle?
what a wonderful problem to have planning the next flinter

EC121 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2020, 08:38:31 PM »

I have a Hoyt gain twist .62. Can't tell the difference, but it was on the rifle when I got it. Gain twist is usually recommended for heavy loads in bench style rifles to supposedly let the ball/bullet get moving without jumping the lands. Whether or not a proper fitting ball will jump the lands is a whole new area of discussion. Most of the comments in Ned Roberts book say that there is no real gain from gain twist barrels. Pun intended.

Daryl · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2020, 08:51:16 PM »

Dan's 18 pound plank rifle has a Jim McLemore gain twist 4150 heavy bl. It's very accurate.

Berksrifle · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2020, 10:41:22 PM »

recurve, I built a Cabin Creek PA Mountain rifle kit in .54 cal. 3 years ago. Great kit. Everything fit the way it was supposed to. The lines are beautiful. I love the plain looks of this style. Shoots great. I have to watch myself shooting from the bench, tend to smack your cheek bone if you are not careful. Offhand no problem. My rifle weighs 7.0 lbs. My rifle has a Colerain barrel with a 1 in 56 twist. Brad Emig tunes the locks in his kits. Many shooters at the range comment on its speed.

Ken

WadePatton · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2020, 11:34:54 PM »

Quote from: recurve on February 12, 2020, 07:56:35 PM

Ok first THANKs for all the input .
I went for a ride to York county to Cabin Creek Muzzle loaders what a great place for spending time & $ ! I got to handle their York rifle and a surprise contender the Mountain Rifle . The York is everything I want, But with a straight barrel 39inch square bottom rifleing (but 7pounds )
The Mountain rifle they handed me is not nearly as fancy BUT with the swamped barrel round bottom rifleing and single trigger also Under 7 pounds but feels and balanced much nicer than the York slightly muzzle heave . trigger was crisp no creep and broke very nicely ( I wish I could get the York with the mountain barrel, they said no)
Now a new twist they have Colerain barrels and suggested Gain twist (That blew my mind, having Green mnt 1-70 and gezt 1-66 ) starts at 1-96 and ends at 1-48 just when I had some things settled . Does any one have a mountain rifle ?
Any one have a gain twist rifle?
what a wonderful problem to have planning the next flinter

Twist is made a big deal over, but really-it's all been worked out for many years. Get a "standard" rate for PRB in your bore and be happy. The barrel makers don't put "bad twists" in their barrels. Options are offered because folks will pay for them, for notions that vary. Straight rifling is available too!

I'm just saying don't get lost in options, it shouldn't be that difficult. And dig around there are lots of guys with a kit or two for sale who aren't big catalog houses. I just found that Clay Smith offers a variety of "trade gun" kits. (as example, I understand that's not your focus here).

Scota4570 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 13, 2020, 01:20:53 AM »

A "late golden age rifle around 7#" could be pretty fancy and refined. My first LR build was and Armstrong like rifle. Some Armstrongs were quite dainty and would qualify for what you want. There are no kits I know of that mode such a light weight late rifle. My Armstrong has a 42" 13/16" 45 cal barrel. IT weighs 8#. The wood is not fat.
On my Armstrong I made some mistakes. I spent a huge amount of time. There are lots of parts to fabricate. All in all it is nice but was too much to tackle as my first full build. I suggest keeping it simple first time and saving the super fancy refined rifle for later. IF you can stand to have a 45 caliber, the Kibler SMR is a flyweight.

In the end, pick something, build it, have fun. They are like puppies, there are no bad ones.

bob in the woods · « **Reply #21 on:** February 13, 2020, 02:37:38 AM »

If you want a York style, and a swamped barrel with round bottom grooves, you should take a really hard look at the Chamber's York. It's styling is spot on, and although you will have to settle for a .50 I believe you'd be thrilled once you handle one.

thecapgunkid · « **Reply #22 on:** February 13, 2020, 02:47:38 PM »

Chambers kits until you figure out what skills you have and don't have, what tools you can afford and can't afford, what guns you will keep and what guns you will flip.

By the third gun I figured out that I did not want a stock that had the lock inletted or the forestock rounded.

The forum is your friend, the forum is your friend, the forum is your friend

Die before you let a season go by without going to a riflemakers faire.

JW · « **Reply #23 on:** February 13, 2020, 10:27:45 PM »

Quote from: B.Barker on February 11, 2020, 01:00:24 AM

I have to politely disagree with Germanic guns and English locks. German made guns yes but not so much with American rifles. Oerter used English round face lock at least once and many late 18th and early 19th century Pennsylvania rifle have English export locks. The early rifles from Pennsylvania usually don't have English locks but some did. The early rifles may have had replaced locks but I dodn't think all are.

Yes... considering the number of cheap imported English locks, it's a wonder any German gunsmiths in PA at the time used German locks.

Buckskinner · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2020, 11:11:16 PM »

I can't say enough about the quality of a Chambers kit. Yes, they are much more involved than a Kibler kit, but top notch in my opinion. I did a Edward Marshall last year and am in the process of a York. Very small issues with both stock inletting, but not a big deal to work around them.

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Author Topic: What's the best kit gun (Read 6206 times)

Buckskinner