Author Topic: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?  (Read 3039 times)

Smokey Plainsman

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Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« on: February 10, 2020, 08:18:47 AM »
I hear the two terms “custom” and “semi-custom” thrown around all the time, but really, what does that mean? When does a semi-custom become a full blow custom?  ???

-Smokey

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2020, 04:21:33 PM »
Not everyone uses terms in the same way and it really ticks some people off to refer to their work as semi-custom.

It’s less inflammatory and more informative to talk about “one of a kind”, “built from a blank”, “started as a set of parts”, made from a kit with lots of fitting and shaping required”, or  “made from a ready-to-assemble kit.”

Some folks tend to associate “custom” with decorative elements and would be fine with calling a gun made from a ready to assemble kit, nicely carved and finished as”custom”. Others would say a scratch built Northwest trade gun, or “type G” trade gun is “custom”. So for me these terms don’t mean much.

In other disciplines of gun building, a custom stocked gun may be designed with a different length of pull, drop at comb or heel, and so on to make the gun fit the customer as opposed to an off the rack standard manufactured gun.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 04:28:00 PM by rich pierce »
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2020, 05:52:45 PM »
To add to this, oftentimes there is a connotation between these terms and assumptions of quality.  This isn't necessarily the case.  It's best to ignore these titles and focus on each and the quality it has.  For example, you can have fully custom guns that are crapola and at the other end you can have a rifle assembled from a kit that is fantastic.

Jim

Offline MuskratMike

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2020, 06:29:30 PM »
Jim: espically if that kit is one or yours.
"Muskrat" Mike McGuire
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2020, 07:22:10 PM »
Jim: espically if that kit is one or yours.

Or others.  Look at some of the work Jim Chambers has done on his kits.  Beautiful stuff!

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2020, 07:56:07 PM »
Takes a while to sort things out, but in a few years you will likely see some names of makers come up over and over again and others not so much.  Some guys do nothing but make guns, and others make only as a hobby, some only make a few.  The ones who get the best prices (top dollar) have earned a great reputation for top notch work.

The labels custom and semi-custom mean nothing to me. Tell me who made it-that is the key. If this person has no reputation, then the gun is great or good or marginal depending completely upon the level of work it exhibits. 

Sometimes the "outsourced" parts have a bit to do with it, but often not.
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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2020, 12:29:17 AM »
   To me it's simple. A custom gun is something that is different from all the rest. I wont even get into the kit debate. Because with a kit you get a certain set of parts. If you just stick it together it looks pretty much like the rest. But if you add to the overall look add your individual touch to it (or ) some one elses
talent to finish it. Then you have a gun customized for you. It's how it's personalized is what makes it a costum..JM2C
 OLDTRAVLER

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2020, 01:40:56 AM »
 So is Custom meant to mean a gun built to the builders standards and semicustom the same gun but with variations requested by the client or added by the builder as a variant?
 I guess my question is what is a "Custom" gun and what makes the same gum "Semicustom"?


  Tim C.

Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2020, 01:58:44 AM »
I’ve never noticed the term used.  I must overlook it.  The definition is: made or done to order for a particular customer.  To me,  every gun we make is custom regardless of following a set of plans, looking at original pictures, using original measurements or whatever.  They are all custom based off originals, from imagination or a little of both.  The customer is sometimes ourself.

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2020, 03:14:29 AM »
I first saw the term being used on another forum some years ago in an attempt to make a distinction between the mini-production TVM style guns from full factory production guns like Thompson Center or on the other extreme guns made by individual makers like Martin, Pratt, Brooks, etc.

Offline LynnC

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2020, 07:39:57 AM »
I prefer terms like “ built from a blank “ or “ precarve kit from so and so that i did this and that to” or I made every single bit of this gun including the lock!  I engraved the gun.....etc. In other words, describe the level if effort and skill you put into the build and then let the market determine its ultimate merit.

That said, I have built guns from a blank, made the lock and drilled reamed and rifled the barrel but NoBody is going to pay big bucks for my work. Its fully functional, but my carving is average and engraving primitive. People pay for Art not Effort.

Some can take a darn near snap together kit and shape, carve, engrave and finish it and it becomes a true work of art.......built from a kit but still worth more and prettier than my primitive guns

Custom. Semi Custom. Full Custom. All semantics.

It all boils down to what do you appreciate? 

Too Some the ultimate perfection and others the ultimate skill.

Where was i going with all this.........Unless you count fitting the gun to the buyer, I dont think “custom” really describes the guns we make.

They are more folk art than anything else
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 07:55:46 AM by LynnC »
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Offline LynnC

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2020, 07:58:51 AM »
Clear as Mud......
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2020, 05:10:21 PM »
Just for jollies, what would you call a Kibler Colonial kit assembled, carved, engraved and finished all by Jim Kibler? He did it all. I saw two of these at his CLA booth.  Semi-custom? Custom? To me those terms are meaningless. I would call those two rifles darned near amazing, and I would be proud to own one. Look at the work, and don’t worry about terminology. God bless, Marc

Offline LynnC

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2020, 06:37:17 PM »
Regardless of method of manufacture, the finest rifles ever made are being made today.

And its the maker, the skill and methods in the making that I really appreciate.

There is a wide spectrum between the all hand made to the most accurate kit. Its all a matter of personal preference and personal skill level.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 06:46:25 PM by LynnC »
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Offline sz

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2020, 06:50:49 PM »
As was said above, the word custom has different meanings to different people.

 For me personally, a "custom" gun is one that has a stock that is made to fit the owner. I can and often does have commercial components (but can also have 100% hand made parts too) but "custom" means it has the owners length of pull, drop at comb, drop at heel cast off and pitch. Ornamentation can place a semi-custom gun above the fully custom gun in price and value, so "custom" doesn't mean higher pricing.  It means it was made to fit a customer exactly.
Some truly custom guns are very plane.
Others are something fit for the king of France in1750.

 But the word only means it fits the owner like part of his body.

Offline Bob McBride

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2020, 07:44:16 PM »
As was said above, the word custom has different meanings to different people.

 For me personally, a "custom" gun is one that has a stock that is made to fit the owner. I can and often does have commercial components (but can also have 100% hand made parts too) but "custom" means it has the owners length of pull, drop at comb, drop at heel cast off and pitch. Ornamentation can place a semi-custom gun above the fully custom gun in price and value, so "custom" doesn't mean higher pricing.  It means it was made to fit a customer exactly.
Some truly custom guns are very plane.
Others are something fit for the king of France in1750.

 But the word only means it fits the owner like part of his body.

That's basically my way of seeing it as well.

A 'custom' gun is a 'bespoke' gun, if not hand made, then certainly hand fit. A 'semi-custom' gun had a factory and a craftsman's hand involved in the building and/or fitting of the gun in some way.

There are 'handmade' guns and there are 'factory' guns and an infinite number of shades between the two.

Most importantly, none of these terms properly describe a gun.

YMMV

Offline LynnC

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2020, 08:06:26 PM »
I would certainly agree that “custom” best describes a gun fitted to the end user. I think SZ summed it up well.

The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2020, 08:47:04 PM »
I agree that a textbook definition of custom is commissioned work to be made to customer specifications. It also usually has made to measure fit involved. Choosing from  a list of available options is not really custom work IMO. Custom or bespoke work has an unspoken air of being of the highest quality. This of course is only true if the one doing the work is capable of the highest quality work.

Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2020, 09:16:05 PM »
I agree.  I think I got it.  A "custom" gun was made for a particular individual.  ie, lop, offset, sight picture, etc.  A "semi-custom" gun is one that was not made specifically for the individual but nearly fits the individual that purchased it.  Or, after the "custom" gun was sold or gotten rid of it obtains the name "semi-custom" until the end of time.  I think I'll stay away from using those terms.

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2020, 07:45:39 PM »
  Well everything said is good...but is this another term we are going to beat to death...???     Oldtravler

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Custom vs. Semi-Custom?
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2020, 11:43:47 PM »
I would certainly agree that “custom” best describes a gun fitted to the end user. I think SZ summed it up well.


A gun can be fitted, but be of entirely standard, "non custom" components.  IOW, you can re-fit a production BP gun for a smaller shooter, perhaps even lengthen it for a taller shooter, or "fit up" a standard mass-production company kit.   I would not call it custom (or semi-custom).  I'd call it a production gun (or kit), fitted.

More mud! 

So you order a kit, and swap out the lock for a more appropriate one, and add some tacks to it, or a square nail or three, and spend a month building up a fantastic finish on both wood and metal?  Custom?  or simply a well-executed "kit". 

Mud.

Was the kit one of thousands cranked out by production guns inc., or was it some special and appropriate parts gathered up by a one-man shop and sold to you because you're "in a hurry" and his wait list is two years? In-fact it was one of seven kits he sold that year.

Mudlicious.


No disparagement intended for any such gun of any type or the makers/sellers/assemblers of such.  I like to judge them when I see them, not before-a gunmaker can-and sometimes does work from all sorts of sources.  :D

Those retailers using such labels are probably the best folks to ask exactly what do they mean by their labels.  We don't have a "standardization".

similar but different:  "Bespoke" was the term most often used in the hand-made bike world for bikes ordered by individuals and quite-naturally fitted to them.  Also there are plenty of hand-made, spec bikes that are fantastic and work within for the inherent-fitment adjustments available on those machines.


« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 11:54:48 PM by WadePatton »
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