Barrel Rifling decision

[Steamingspud]

Hey Guys,
I'm in debate about a new rifle barrel. I can either pay $160 for a Colerain 1-56" twist or a $109 for a Green Mountain 1-70" twist. This will be a .50 cal 42 inch flintlock, my question is of the rifling.
I compete with flintlocks at frontiersman reenactments, and I'm wondering if the 1-56"twist will be worth the $50 over the 1-70". I figured this was more a shooting question than a building question.
Another thing, I've heard tall tales of making a 400 yard shot with a 42" barrel, 1-56" twist. Do you think that's possible?
Thanks

[reklaus]

First let me say that I am new to muzzleloading so you can take what I type with a grain of salt.
I have been doing quite a bit of research on muzzleloading rifles and long range shooting in the 1850-1870 era. From what I have read so far, most round ball rifles that were considered accurate for that time used something in the 1:66 to 1:70 twist rate. It wasn't until "bullets" that were longer than their diameter that faster rates became used. I don't now how much experimenting with round ball was done before Whitworth and others did their experiments with "bullet" shaped projectiles. Some good reading on the subject can be found here: http://www.lrml.org/historical/index.htm
R.E. Klaus

[BrownBear]

My experience with longrange RB shooting stops at 300 yards, but when I hear claims, historical account or any other reference to 400 yard shooting, I have one reaction:  Show me.  Hit the mark consistently, heck even estimate the range accurately, and I'll believe it.  Otherwise I read it as pure horsepucky.  Sure a guy might get lucky with a one shot hit, but take that kind of luck to Vegas and make your fortune.

I base all that on my observation that as range stretches beyond 250-300 yards, velocity drops to the point that RBs start to veer and wander.  I've heard it explained like a "nuckleball," and that sure makes sense based on what I see on the backstops.  Add in the potential for wind drift on the slightest breeze, even minor errors in range estimation and rainbow trajectories.......   Like I said, make a one-shot hit at 400 yards and take that kind of luck to Vegas and get rich.

[Dphariss]

Hey Guys,
I'm in debate about a new rifle barrel. I can either pay $160 for a Colerain 1-56" twist or a $109 for a Green Mountain 1-70" twist. This will be a .50 cal 42 inch flintlock, my question is of the rifling.
I compete with flintlocks at frontiersman reenactments, and I'm wondering if the 1-56"twist will be worth the $50 over the 1-70". I figured this was more a shooting question than a building question.
Another thing, I've heard tall tales of making a 400 yard shot with a 42" barrel, 1-56" twist. Do you think that's possible?
Thanks

Green Mountain hands down. I have both right now and REALLY wish all were GMs.
I made 300 yard shots with the 70" GM its not really relevant.

Dan

[Dphariss]

My experience with longrange RB shooting stops at 300 yards, but when I hear claims, historical account or any other reference to 400 yard shooting, I have one reaction:  Show me.  Hit the mark consistently, heck even estimate the range accurately, and I'll believe it.  Otherwise I read it as pure horsepucky.  Sure a guy might get lucky with a one shot hit, but take that kind of luck to Vegas and make your fortune.

I base all that on my observation that as range stretches beyond 250-300 yards, velocity drops to the point that RBs start to veer and wander.  I've heard it explained like a "nuckleball," and that sure makes sense based on what I see on the backstops.  Add in the potential for wind drift on the slightest breeze, even minor errors in range estimation and rainbow trajectories.......   Like I said, make a one-shot hit at 400 yards and take that kind of luck to Vegas and get rich.

It is possible to hit targets 30" diameter at 400+ with a 54 RB. But not with one shot unless very lucky.  Its not possible to even deal with the temp and humidity variations that will effect bullet strike.

This is about the max for typical rifle bore sizes.
Trying it at 1000 with a 54 caliber? They won't get there.
However, a "wall gun" type rifle with bores around 1" are much more accurate at 400 yards or so.  Based on historical writings.
Over 100 (or even less) the typical rb gets really vulnerable to wind etc and do the knuckle ball thing you mention at 200. The 22LR will do the same thing at 150-200 in a x-wind. Some bullets will strike UPWIND. 
See Col Hangers report of a horse killed at about that distance by a Colonial. The ball passed between him and his CO who were conversing at the time and killed the "bugleman's" horse behind them.

Dan

[bob in the woods]

The question I have is; what kind of rifling?  The Colerain barrels I have are round bottomed while the Green Mountain are flat. I have used a lot of the B profile barrels by both of these makers, and am usually happy with what I get. In general, the round bottom rifling is usually deeper as well.
Just for interest, all  of my target rifles have Green Mountain barrels.  Most of my hunting rifles are Colerain or Getz.  I use the Colerain because the Getz barrels are hard to come by. My next rifle will likely have a 44 inch B .50 cal. Rice barrel.  Lots to think about! Most barrels today shoot better than I can hold.
Oh, I should  add that the Green Mountain barrels are usually better finished than Colerain [ in my opinion}
Since I've kind of wandered here, I'll answer your question in this way...is the Colerain barrel worth the extra money to get the 1 in 56 twist?...  No.  { IMO }

[Steamingspud]

OK, I looked at Green Mountain Barrels. I highly appreciate you're advice Mr. Miller, I probably would have gotten the Colerain. What I saw on the GM site was quite interesting. A .50 cal 32" barrel for black powder muzzle loading, with a 1:28" twist. Is this in any way a practical rifle barrel and would it be more accurate than the last barrel mentioned despite the length difference?

[Tom Cooper]

Typically that twist rate is considerd a conical barrel. It will shoot a PRB, just less room for load variations.
I Think...

[40Haines]

OK, I looked at Green Mountain Barrels. I highly appreciate you're advice Mr. Miller, I probably would have gotten the Colerain. What I saw on the GM site was quite interesting. A .50 cal 32" barrel for black powder muzzle loading, with a 1:28" twist. Is this in any way a practical rifle barrel and would it be more accurate than the last barrel mentioned despite the length difference?

I believe that 32"/1:28 was made for Peticonias Rigby rifle.

A  very good shooting rifle at a reasonable cost.

Probably my next build.

Should look like this one !

[ottawa]

The fastest I would go for a round ball barrel would be 1in48 i have a great plains rifle with that and you can shoot both round and conical you start getting in to the faster twist and you run in to problems with round ball  too fast can strip and getting a load to shoot how you want mite not be feasible in a 1 to 28 and by the way my great plains has hit the target at 300 yards just not a tight group and a large bulls  24 in didn't cut the X so I canceled my vagas trip lol i haven't tried my slower twist at that range .oh the plains rifle is .45cal

[Dphariss]

OK, I looked at Green Mountain Barrels. I highly appreciate you're advice Mr. Miller, I probably would have gotten the Colerain. What I saw on the GM site was quite interesting. A .50 cal 32" barrel for black powder muzzle loading, with a 1:28" twist. Is this in any way a practical rifle barrel and would it be more accurate than the last barrel mentioned despite the length difference?

The 28" twist is a dedicated "bullet" barrel.
It will also shoot better with a bullet like a Maxi.

But its not needed and may actually be a detriment when using a cloth patched round ball.

GMs standard RB twist is 70" in 50 caliber.
GM RB barrels have narrow lands and wide grooves. They are not excessively deep. They have a good interior finish These are all good things from the users stand point.


Dan

[Don Getz]

40......I hope Pecatonica did a better job of designing a Rigby target rifle than what you inidicated.   What you have shown looks like a Thompson Center hawken with a pistol grip......a far cry from a nice Rigby........Don

[T*O*F]

I hope Pecatonica did a better job of designing a Rigby target rifle than what you inidicated.   What you have shown looks like a Thompson Center hawken with a pistol grip

Don,
They did.  It looks like someone took TC parts and put them on a Rigby stock.
Wrong breech and lock, no dripbar, wrong nosecap.  Brass mounted, set triggers, etc.
Pec's parts are all iron and use L&R or Davis bar locks.