Author Topic: How to Build Rachel's "A Custom .50 Based on a St. Louis Hawken"  (Read 3652 times)

Offline Herb

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How to Build Rachel's "A Custom .50 Based on a St. Louis Hawken"
« on: February 21, 2020, 12:16:24 AM »
TaylorZ1  asked me in a PM for a list of parts I used to build this rifle.  This might be of interest to others, so I'll post it for all to see.

(See my post in Gun Building, page 169, April 29, 2012.  That is too long to quote here, look it up if you want.  Go to Search, type in  Custom based Louis Hawken,  user Herb, choose Gun Building, hit enter, and there it is, with pictures).  It is the bottom rifle in this photo.   The Main Highlights:


This rifle is kind of a hybrid Plains rifle and a St. Louis Squirrel rifle, so it is custom all the way, to be smaller and lighter and a bit fancier for a young woman.  You can make it in brass furniture if you want.  My parts:

1. Barrel was a Green Mountain (I think), 7/8"x36" which I cut to 30 inches with a hacksaw and files. 
2.  Lock was a Hawken Pistol lock, no longer available.  (I had to bend the hammer to hit the nipple).

3.  Breech plug was a Hawken Squirrel Rifle 15/16" solid patent breech, no longer available.  I filed it down to 14/16" (7/8") to match the barrel.
4.  Stock was a blank.  I had to use it because of no 7/8" barrel-inletted Hawken precarve available.  L&R trigger plate here.

5.  Other parts are standard Bridger or Carson parts, the butt plate (#BP-Hawk-JB-I), toeplate, L&R triggers, trigger guard, nose cap, entry pipe, key and escutcheons and sideplate.

HOW I WOULD BUILD ANOTHER LIKE IT WITH AVAILABLE PARTS:

1.  Barrel: Track has a 7/8"x42" .50 Green Mountain barrel which could be sawed to 30 inches and then weigh 3.6 pounds.  They don't have a 36" barrel.

Muzzleloader Builders Supply has a  7/8"x36" .50 Green Mountain barrel, threaded for 5/8x18 plug, for $150.  I'd go for this one.  If cut to 30", it would weigh 3.6 pounds.

Track has a 15/16 x 36" GM barrel which if cut to 30 inches would weigh 4.4 pounds.  If cut to 28 inches, it would weigh 4.1 pounds, or a half pound more than a 30" 7/8" barrel.  Shorter is OK.

Oregon Barrel Company (www.thegunworks.com) can build you EXACTLY what you want, even could be tapered.  I'd go with .50 caliber, that will be lighter than smaller caliber barrels.  It can be loaded down to 35 to 50 grains of powder for low recoil, but still good accuracy.  I shoot 50 grains in matches.

Rice Barrel Company may have what you want, I didn't check them.

2.  Because there is no Hawken Pistol lock available, I would use a Golcher cap lock, "internally identical to our Jim Bridger's Hawken Lock".  See Track of Wolf Lock-GG-SR.   This is cut for a 1/2" powder drum rather than a snail, but the plate 1/2" hole could be cut larger for the Hawken snail.  The same lock is available from MBS with an UNCUT PLATE, where you cut the notch to fit the snail.  I do this on all my Hawken builds, cut that notch myself.  This is the closest match to the Hawken Squirrel lock.  Call Ryan Roberts at Muzzleloader Builders Supply and ask him if this Golcher lock plate can be fitted to a Hawken plug and tang for a 7/8" or 15/16" barrel.

3.  Because the Hawken Squirrel rifle Patent Brech is no longer available, you use something else.  I'd use Track's Hawken 15/16" Slant Faced Breech & Tang, by L&R, #Plug-LR-15-5, 5/8x18 thread.  If you use a 7/8" barrel, the sides of the plug and breech and top of the tang can be filed or ground down.  That would be 1/32" per side (.0312).  For scale, a dime is .050 thick.  You could cut half the length of the tang off for weight savings, and use a wood screw for the tail.  I'd leave it full length.  You may have to bend the tang to match the stock wrist.

4.  Stock- Because there is no 7/8" barrel channel Hawken halfstock available, I cut mine from a blank.  Too much work.  Call Dick Greensides at Pecatonica Longrifle Supply and ask him if he will custom cut one for you.  I've had him do two custom stocks, and I'm very pleased with his work.  Here is what I ask for: Hawken halfstock, grade CM-2 (has plenty of figure), cut for 15/16" or 7/8" barrel channel (whichever) and 7/16" rod hole.  NO OTHER INLETTING, not lock, triggers, keys, entry pipe or nose cap.  Then you make that into a Hawken stock.  You cut the buttplate to length of pull.   A length of 12.5 to 13 inches works well, I make mine 13.25, like the Bridger and Carson and Liver Eating Johnson Hawkens.

5.  Triggers can be Davis (not now in stock), but L&R double set are also very good and available today, straight front trigger, got mine today from MBS, part 25050.  I like it better than ones I got before.

6.  Trigger guard is Track's TG-Hawk-L-I.  The loop must be bent open to fit the trigger plate, easy to do.  MBS has the same guard, 14820, with an unthreaded 5/16" post.  Track's can be threaded 10x32 or 1/4x28, which I prefer.

7.  Nose cap- use MBS 15/16" steel FEC-151, or if 7/8" barrel, FEC-141.  Track also has.  Cast steel and good.  Don't use a stamped steel one such as Pecatonica supplies, too hard to fit.

8.  Key is 36-I from Track.  Underlug (one) is UL-TC-3.  MBS has 7/8 and 15/16" lipped under ribs.  Track has too, also flat (not lipped), which I prefer.  I rivet ribs on.

9.  Track's screw set H-R.  Sideplate #SP-HLB.  Toe plate is TP-Hawk-2-I.  Key escutcheons are IN-Slot-2-I, two needed.  Entry pipe #RP-TE-7-I.

10.  Sights-  Don't use the Bridger or Kit Carson buckhorn sights from Track, they are too low.  This results in a low front sight.  Don't use an adjustable sight, it is not needed.  I'd get sight RS-SK-16, cut the length to about 3/8" (dovetail), cut in the lower sides to form a buckhorn, cut the notch deep enough to sight in for a 50 yard zero and reshape the top to a smooth circle slightly buckhorn.  If too wide, narrow it fo a 7/8" barrel.  Front Sight- I just got FS-TC-CB-81, silver blade .080 thick and copper base.  Cut it lower to sight in, mine are about .210 inch high.  Lower the rear sight notch shelf to the zero desired.  My rear sight shelf is about .10 higher than the front sight for a 50 yard zero with hunting loads.

11.  Stain and finish are whatever you want.  I probably used Fiebing's dark brown oil leather dye, don't remember the finish.  Carl Walker of the Old Green River Rifle Works likes Track's Original Oil Finish, and so do I, just got another bottle today.  The worn-off areas of my Bridger Hawken are finished with OOF only, no stain.

12.  Steel can be heat blued (propane torch) except for the barrel.  This is easily blued with Brownell's Oxpho blue.  If brown is wanted, I use Laurel Mtn Forge Barrel Brown and Degreaser.  It can be made blue by immersing in boiling water after browned.  Carl Walker likes Track's Tried and True Browning Reagent, and that says a lot.

13.  Patchbox- MBS 35918, which is brass, couldn't find steel.  Some Hawkens were made with brass furniture, and since this is custom, do what you want.

14.  Ramrod- 7/16" Hickory with steel 10x32 caps on each end.  You may have to file the cap down to pass through the pipes, or enlarge the pipes.  You can enlarge the rod hole so the capped rod goes freely in.

And that's how you make a smaller and lighter rifle.  You ought to be done in a couple hundred hours.
Herb

Offline Taylorz1

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Re: How to Build Rachel's "A Custom .50 Based on a St. Louis Hawken"
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2020, 03:45:42 AM »
Herb I cant thank you enough for the time and effort you put into this post. Ive been wanting to build a rifle like this for a while and you saved me a lot of time and headache. Very much appreciated. Your posts are always so well done and helpful. I think this rifle is very similar in concept to this original s Hawken.






Offline borderdogs

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Re: How to Build Rachel's "A Custom .50 Based on a St. Louis Hawken"
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2020, 04:01:27 PM »
Hi Herb,
I agree the list you put together is very interesting and helpful. One comment I was interested in was "Don't use a stamped steel one such as Pecatonica supplies, too hard to fit. " why was the nose cap hard to fit? What was the difference between the Petcatonica and the others? Also, on Rachel's rifle did you use a pin to hold the entry pipe to the stock?
Thanks again,
Rob

Offline mony

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Re: How to Build Rachel's "A Custom .50 Based on a St. Louis Hawken"
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2020, 07:11:11 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to post this. Fine rifle, too.

Offline Herb

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Re: How to Build Rachel's "A Custom .50 Based on a St. Louis Hawken"
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2020, 08:55:44 PM »
Thanks for the comments, all.  Yes, I used a pin to hold the entry pipe.  You can see it in the full length photo. The Carson rifle has it held on with a screw, as  do the Bridger and Liver Eating Johnson rifles.
Here I am building a Carson rifle, and I think this is the Pecatonica (Ted Cash) stamped steel cap.  I smoke up the inside and tap it onto the stock to mark what needs to be cut down to fit the cap.


What do you suppose that flimsy cap does when I tap it onto the nose?   It bends and expands to fit the wood.  It has to be fitted exactly, and you can't cut the wood to it, or you scratch it up.  And how do you hold it on?  It is .025 thick, and should be screwed to the wood with a 5x40 flat head screw.  How many threads hold it? 
\
Here are some nose caps.  The Ted Cash (stamped steel, .025 thick) is at top right.  You can bend it with your fingers.  These cast caps are .055, .060, .070 and 1.00 thick at the ramrod groove, where the screw goes.  They can be filed on the outside and sanded with the wood, and removed for browning or bluing. 


And if the rod groove is too high for the under rib, you cannot file it down to the under rib groove.  And thickness of under ribs- that is another can of worms.  One has to be a masochist to build Hawkens, unless you have done enough of them to know how to avoid or overcome the materials problems.



So how did I hold that stamped steel nose cap on?  (Don't tell nobody, I epoxied, er, glued it on).
Herb

Offline borderdogs

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Re: How to Build Rachel's "A Custom .50 Based on a St. Louis Hawken"
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2020, 09:32:01 PM »
Thanks again Herb that's good information. You illustrate your points so well and it is very much appreciated. So for a full stock where would you get a nose cap that isn't stamped? I suppose I could machine  one out of soft steel but a purchase would make more sense in regard to time.
Rob

Offline FALout

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Re: How to Build Rachel's "A Custom .50 Based on a St. Louis Hawken"
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2020, 12:20:24 AM »
Good write up on the “little” Hawken.   Should give anyone who’s interested a very good starting point.  I might have to start scrounging for parts.
Bob
Bob

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: How to Build Rachel's "A Custom .50 Based on a St. Louis Hawken"
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2020, 01:10:16 AM »
I made some Hawken pistol locks many years ago and advertised them
in the old Buckskin Report and as I recall,the only reponse was from some
guy that wanted to trade a bear skin rug for some of them.My response
was for him to get a reality check.
Bob Roller

Offline Herb

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Re: How to Build Rachel's "A Custom .50 Based on a St. Louis Hawken"
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2020, 01:39:47 AM »
Borderdogs, the correct nose cap for a fullstock Hawken is stamped.  i use Track's Shallow Crescent Muzzle Cap.  With a one-inch barrel, it is part  #MC-SC-16-I, which is two inches long but should be cut to 1 1/2 inches.  For the entry pipe, I used RP-RH-RE-7-I,   7/16 plain iron.  I cut 1/4" off the skirt.
Here is a Neill Fields fullstock Hawken flintlock with his nose cap.

His is on the right and mine on the left, with the shorter nosecap.

Neill's on the right with brass rod tip, mine on the left with steel rod tip.

« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 02:27:39 AM by Herb »
Herb

Offline David G

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Re: How to Build Rachel's "A Custom .50 Based on a St. Louis Hawken"
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2020, 02:31:04 AM »
Mr. Herb, my hat  off to you for compiling and sharing this with us. Much appreciated!

Offline Joe S.

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Re: How to Build Rachel's "A Custom .50 Based on a St. Louis Hawken"
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2020, 03:02:34 AM »
Not sure if theres a source for a "authentic" style hawken fullstock nose piece.Their nose pieces where half round and all the ones I see offered are more oval shaped.Thinking most folks are fabricating their own.

Offline borderdogs

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Re: How to Build Rachel's "A Custom .50 Based on a St. Louis Hawken"
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2020, 08:05:42 AM »
Thanks Herb, I have one of those caps from Track on order>
Rob