Wow, I got cross-threaded with a few posters. I didn't mean to cast dispersions on any of the member's shooting ability. But I remain unrepentant in my view that lethal shots at unknown ranges greater than 300 yards, say, cannot be reliably made. I'll swing by the silhouette range at Friendship next month and see if the ram goes down every time.
I think we can all agree that today's rifles and equipment are better than two hundred years ago, and that a lot of the shooters here are more practiced. We have the ability to measure the shot before it's taken, and then try it again and again until we get it right. Range estimation is the biggie - beyond 300 yards a 25 yard error means you missed your man-sized target by shooting over or under. A day on the range is one thing, but a one-off shot in the field is another matter.
I love Hanger's story. The audacity, the lethality, and the fear, all rolled into a few sentences. If you step back and consider it, though, the shooter had a composite target about 10 feet wide and most of six feet high, not counting legs, and it probably wasn't his intent to take it out on the orderly's horse merely as a warning. If his buddies had told him to put another round into the horse to make certain it was good and dead, would he have made the shot?
DPHARISS - I've only shot to 1000 yards with highpower, and only to 800 with BCP, so admittedly, my experience is limited. I recall my first long range (800) BCP match. I was the new kid, everyone else was pretty well kitted out. At the end of the day I realised that probably half of these 60 other, more experienced shooters were either still looking for 6' x 6' paper or struggling to stay on it. True. Thereafter I took a more jaundiced view of the stories of the buffalo hunters.
You miss the point of Hangers story. REGARDLESS this was a heck of a shot. Furthermore the patriot made the British leave. Mission accomplished. He put a ball within a couple of feet of the General and the Col. The first shot past between two men horse back talking in normal tones, 400+- yards, cold turkey, iron sights. Can YOU do this???
I honestly don't see your point in discounting the accomplishment. I think it was a GREAT shot as did Hanger who was an accomplished rifleman himself.
BPCR...
Shooters could not find the 800 yard 6x6 target? You need to hang out with a better class of shooters.
The rams in BPCR sihouette are the same as HP 12"+- deep in the chest. Most good loads will shoot into 1-2 MOA at that distance, 500 yards or meters. So a good shot can run the rams with a little luck.
HOWEVER, if you do not know how or don't take the time to load the cartridges properly you can get 30" of vertical dispersion at 300 yards. Yeah I did this myself in testing by getting a little sloppy group was about 4" wide and 30" tall for 10 shots. So this translates into several feet at 800. Thus one shot is pretty well on for elevation then 1 or more are very low or high. Makes accurate shooting tough.
Here are the results from one of the "side matches" at Raton this year. The 5 at 200 match.
This is 5 shots 200 yards, BP only. Note that the over 40 matches were won with original rifles but I have no idea if the BARRELS were original but they easily could be.
Iron sights, over .40 cal. Darrell Smithson of MT.
Original Rem RB ,45-90 .......size 1.916"
Scope sight, over .40 cal. David Burger of TX.
Original Rem. RB , 45-70........size 1.096" This is a NEW record for any of
the classes both for the US and international matches.
Iron sight, .40 cal and under. Doug Gazaway of GA.
Browning .40-65 .... size 2.122"
Scope sight .40 cal and under. Jim Kidwell of GA.
Pedersoli John Bodine RB, 40-65 .....size 1.528"
I would have to look it up for specific details but one of the Irish Rifle team members circa 1877-1878 shot a long string of shots 10 or so at 1000 all inside the 36" black, with a Sharps longrange when he visited the factory. 3-3.5 MOA with irons at 1000, not too bad at all.,
Now shots at unknown ranges....Always tough. But the plains are generally dusty and one sighter, from eye witness accounts would put the shooter on at 400-500 yards even on deer sized animals. When the buffalo were gone some turned to market hunting and deer were still pretty plentiful. Even today a BPCR does not scare game all that much.
And as I stated they got pretty good at distances and had cheaters as described in the other post. Many used globe front sights and how large the animal looked in the globe was a guide. A friend used to use this for elk. Not fool proof but with practice its a usable range finder.
So don't equate what you experienced at 800 as typical. It took several years of learning to get back what was lost when BP was replaced by smokeless. But BP will REALLY shoot if loaded right. If not it can be very bad.
One more little tid bit IIRC the last 1000 yard match won with BP was in 1900, Sharps Borchardt longrange with BP ammo. Outshot the 30-40 Krags to win.
There is quite a lot of interesting info about the hide hunters that has been published in the past 10-15 years. It might be informative. Getting a Stand is available from TOW.
Late
Dan
