An interesting Kentucky find

[Stoner creek]

 I had a friend show me this piece. He obtained it from a fellow from Bowling Green KY. This is and always was a half stock rifle. 45 cal slightly swamped Barrel. This is an entirely iron mounted gun with some really interesting architectural and decorative features. I’m not going to make any other assumptions about this one but would like to know anything about its origin and maker. How bout a little help with this one! Oh by the way, it’s not for sale.


















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[dogbest]

Nice gun!

[Gary Tucker]

How cool is that.  I love that cheek piece. Never seen one like it before.

[Tanselman]

I have collected and researched Kentucky gunmaking for about 40 years and have not seen a rifle like this one, yet it has some features to the stock that suggest it might be from KY. The Blue Grass area used simple double line forestock and lower butt moldings, and the guard's bow has some of the forward slope and heavy front post of a Blue Grass rifle, but also very different in the grip rail and rear spur. Straight butt lines, i.e. a triangular butt, suggest possible KY roots, as does the small, oval cheekpiece which is found on some better, later percussion guns from Louisville. But the strange butt plate and additional molding lines in non-traditional locations, plus extensive wear plate under the grip area of the forestock, are different from anything I've seen in KY. Small lock bolt washer has a little of the "anchor" shape seen on New York rifles. Very interesting rifle...this one will drive all the viewers nuts for a while!  Would it be possible to get a couple of additional pictures of this rifle? If so, it would help to see:

1. A straight on, no angle but rather directly over rifle, picture of the front half of the gun, from the butt plate out to about a foot down the barrel.
2. Step back and get a full length view of the entire gun, front side, directly over the gun so not at an angle.
3. Close up of the tang at the breech of the barrel.
4. Close up of the rear entry pipe and forestock termination, showing perhaps 3 to 4" on either side of the rear pipe.
5. Muzzle, so can see bore, but from off to the side a little so not looking directly down into the bore.

Also, could you provide the current barrel length and caliber.

One question...with no intent to ruffle feathers...but why are you certain this gun has always been a half-stocked rifle, and not a shortened full-stocked rifle?

Shelby Gallien

[Stoner creek]

Perhaps I can get this gun again for some other pictures. Unfortunately it’s located an hour or so away.
I came to the always half stock conclusion mainly because the barrel showed no evidence of barrel lug dovetails. It presently sports a solid rib and extremely worn upper ramrod pipes.
 The barrel also at one time had some type of patent breech which was silver soldered on and then recently removed.
 Thanks Shelby for your observations. I was hoping that you caught this post!!!

[FALout]

I’m not much for back action locks, but this rifle has so many neat qualities.  That buttplate is very unique.  Hope someone has some info on it?

[louieparker]

Stone Creek.. I once owned an iron mounted rifle made by Dugger & Smith.. They worked in north East Tenn. . Not sure what county. But Dr. Wayne Battle told me their shop site is now at the bottom of a lake. That rifle had the grip rail curl on the trigger plate as this rifle does. Not a common thing.  Not saying there is a connection.  Stocking is different..The rifle in your photos is one cool rifle..  Might cause a few of us to covet,,Love the butt plate !  Your friend was fortunate  to get it....LP

[Tanselman]

The question about half-stocked vs. full-stocked was due to two observations from your posted pictures:

1. If a KY gun, the rear sight sits father back than I would expect...possibly indicating the barrel had been shortened, a common occurrence when a full-stocked gun if reworked, i.e. rebreeched and cut to half-stock. If a KY gun, the amount of barrel shortening is a little too much to assign to simply a single rebreeching.

2. If you look at the side of the barrel just above the forestock wood, you can see the barrel is worn and lighter in color where hands [and other things] touch it, and dark farther down near the edge of the stock wood where you can no longer touch the barrel. THEN, if you look beyond the rear ramrod pipe, you see this same pattern continue down the barrel, with a distinct lighter top section and darker bottom section of the exposed barrel. Usually, when the lower section of the barrel is darker than the top section on fully exposed barrels, it indicates the gun was originally full-stocked.  The darker color on the lower section of the exposed barrel is from being protected for many years under stock wood while the upper exposed barrel became lighter due to handling, exposure to the elements, and loss of original browning. While this color differentiation fades over time, when visible it often indicates the rifle originally had a full stock that protected the lower flats of the barrel...until the forestock was shortened and exposed the darker, lower area. On original half-stocked guns, the barrel beyond the rear pipe is almost always consistent in color all the way around...no trace of a "line" of lighter top and darker bottom...which I think I can see in your 1st or top picture.

Shelby Gallien

[Robby]

Beautiful gun!!! Whoever it was, he had his own style!!!
Robby

[Mike Brooks]

I can only see 4 pictures for some reason, but based on those I'd say it is a NC gun. Mainly because I can't guess any better than that.

[B.Barker]

Wayne your friend found one interesting rifle for sure. That thing has some really cool details on it for sure! Wouldn't be located my way would it?

[Stoner creek]

It’s east of me but I’ll bet that I can borrow it if you want to look it over.