Swabbing between shots???

[MuskratMike]

If it didn't work why do 99.5% of all suppository shooters do it? It works, go back up to my response, read it and follow it.

[Scota4570]

I wonder how much moisture is in one breath?

Can it really make an impact on powder fouling?

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/146542/how-to-calculate-the-volume-of-water-in-a-certain-amount-of-air-given-the-relat

https://www.aqua-calc.com/calculate/volume-to-weight

http://convert-to.com/conversion/volume/convert-ml-to-drop.html

I get 0.6 drops of water in a 1 liter exhale.

[recurve]

Mutton tallow no swabbing 100yrds from bench (2 high before regulating rear sight)

[Daryl]

Exactly, Recurve. When I could see, my .69 used to do that as well. 1" to 1 1/2" at 100 meters, no swabbing necessary.
But, like you, I used a decent ball and patch combination.
If you want to swab, or it is necessary due to time between shots, or your combination is so weak you have to, have at it.
Swabbing or wiping between shots is not necessary for achieving accuracy from your gun if you are shooting it right away
and using a decent ball and thick patch.

[OldMtnMan]

Even if I didn't have to. I'd still do it.

Live and let live.

[Kary]

I compete in many woods walks and grocery shoots. I shoot both flintlock and percussion rifle... when I compete with both I swab. I just do the exact same thing over and over again, being consistent in all I do, swab with a spray lube mix, once down and out, load the same and aim the same and things stay the same... at least for me they do. My 2 cents.. take it for what it’s worth!

[little joe]

I thought I covered this. No, no and no. Shoot, blow down the barrel, powder, patch and ball (in that order), ram home, prime and shoot. no more no less.

Here in the east we use NMLRA safety  rules a lot and is plainly stated NO blowing down barrels. I did see a guy who had lost his train of thought and started to blow down a loaded one  though.

[Mike from OK]

We'll argue this until the second coming...

Simple solution: do it if you want. Don't if you don't want to.

Mike

[Daryl]

What's the argument. All I've ever said is, you don't have to if you don't want to.
Then, I've explained what you need to do if you don't want to.
 That's all. I've also said if you want to anyway, have at it, it's a choice. 
Many guys here have taken the suggestions and no longer have to wipe between
shots, or even after 20 shots as there is no buildup in fouling, shot to shot, or even
after 50 shots.
We have shot as many as just over 100 shots in a day without having to wipe, swab or
otherwise clean the bore. The loading is unchanged.  The powder chamber area will
become smaller in diameter due to fouling there, but is never seems to make more than
1/4" difference in seating depth of the patched ball.  The 100th shot was as accurate as
 the second through to 99. Some of our guns do not need a 'fouling' shot to be fired before
 scoring. Seems all of mine are that way, at this time, for close range shooting, out to 25 or
 so yards. At 50 yards, there is a difference with the fouling shot going high in my .69. I
have not tested this at 50 yards in the .36 or .50. More experimentation, I guess.

[Mike from OK]

What's the argument. All I've ever said is, you don't have to if you don't want to.
Then, I've explained what you need to do if you don't want to.
 That's all. I've also said if you want to anyway, have at it, it's a choice. 
Many guys here have taken the suggestions and no longer have to wipe between
shots, or even after 20 shots as there is no buildup in fouling, shot to shot, or even
after 50 shots.
We have shot as many as just over 100 shots in a day without having to wipe, swab or
otherwise clean the bore. The loading is unchanged.  The powder chamber area will
become smaller in diameter due to fouling there, but is never seems to make more than
1/4" difference in seating depth of the patched ball.  The 100th shot was as accurate as
 the second through to 99. Some of our guns do not need a 'fouling' shot to be fired before
 scoring. Seems all of mine are that way, at this time, for close range shooting, out to 25 or
 so yards. At 50 yards, there is a difference with the fouling shot going high in my .69. I
have not tested this at 50 yards in the .36 or .50. More experimentation, I guess.

LOL! I'm not arguing with you Daryl. I don't swab between shots either. I'm an adherent to your instruction on tight combinations.

But we have this discussion about once a month and there's always a percentage of folks who swab their bore between shots and won't be convinced otherwise.

Mike

[alacran]

I came upon Daryl's method on my own, while making the transition from teflon coated patches to tightly woven cotton patching. I have found that I get the same accuracy as I did with the teflon patching. Also I don't use as many cleaning patches. Daryl of course is correct. Its your choice what you use, whatever makes your skirt fly.

[Joe S]

Sometimes I use Daryl’s system of not cleaning between shots, sometimes I always clean between shots. It depends on what I am trying to accomplish.

I am primarily a hunter, so the single shot I fire at game always comes out of a clean barrel. Since the POI changes somewhat after the first shot, when I am preparing for hunting I always clean between shots. If I am concentrating on my shooting form, I don’t clean between shots.

[Bob McBride]

To me this is a bench or match shooters question and that seems to be where folks fall on this. 75% of my guns get one or two shots per outing as I’m, like some of you, a hunter primarily. When I do load development on say a deer gun, I’m sighting in for the clean bore shot so I swab between each shot. Small caliber stuff gets one, two, or even three 5 shot strings before a single pass with a swab. I have no problem swabbing occasionally in the field. My hands are usually sweaty, dirty, and wet and I’m using the wiping stick on the gun and not a range rod so uber tight loads are often impractical for me.  After a few shots at squirrels you’re moving or settling in for a while anyway. May as well wipe. That being said, having a big proponent of ‘no swabbing’ like Daryl around has made me reconsider some of my patch/ball combinations and go a bit tighter than I would normally feel comfortable doing. And that’s nothing but a good thing. I find though, for most of my applications, a delicate balance between tight combinations, and the inarguably tighter groups that results in, and ease of loading in the field, from the bag, is best for me. YMMV.

[allen.54]

I`m new here fist post, but has any body heard of seasoning a barrel   Seasoning keeps your fouling soft and most guns shoot better after they are a little dirty. Staying away from petroleum products and modern cleaning solutions which harden black powder residue, all natural, that`s what the old timers did. also keeps your bore from rusting in damp weather or can`t clean your gun right away. no need to wipe between shots!

[Mike from OK]

I`m new here fist post, but has any body heard of seasoning a barrel   Seasoning keeps your fouling soft and most guns shoot better after they are a little dirty. Staying away from petroleum products and modern cleaning solutions which harden black powder residue, all natural, that`s what the old timers did. also keeps your bore from rusting in damp weather or can`t clean your gun right away. no need to wipe between shots!

Welcome Allen!

Here's a good read on "seasoning" bores...

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=36278.0

Mike

[OldMtnMan]

I`m new here fist post, but has any body heard of seasoning a barrel   Seasoning keeps your fouling soft and most guns shoot better after they are a little dirty. Staying away from petroleum products and modern cleaning solutions which harden black powder residue, all natural, that`s what the old timers did. also keeps your bore from rusting in damp weather or can`t clean your gun right away. no need to wipe between shots!

Old-timers weren't using the modern barrels we use now. TC started the expression seasoning a barrel to sell Bore Butter.

It's hogwash.

[allen.54]

T/C wasn`t the first to come out with all natural products to season your bbl, Ox yoke and others had it a long time before that. I was an advisor for T/C in the 90`s and they were not the first!!!

[allen.54]

Hogwash= Can`t teach old dog new trick! (original trick) some people still can`t get away from the mindset of shooting cartridge gun`s. Hi Mike and thanks for the welcome!!!

[smylee grouch]

What kind and how much experience/credentials would a fella have to have to get a job like advisor to one of those gun  makers. I could use some supplemental income. 

[allen.54]

I ran the black powder dept. in one of the largest gun shops in the east, we were for years TC`s #1 dealer in the US. They would send their engineers to work with us on new products. It`s the shop where Turnbull Restoration came from. Not to brag , but also advised for Traditions and lyman. Thanks!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I once guided a moose hunt for the owner of Connecticut Valley Arms.  He wouldn't listen to a word of advice I had for him, let alone pay me for it.

[Joe S.]

Me,I will listen to folks who put a whole lotta lead down field,eat,sleep and breathe this sport before listening to somebody who listens to their CFO(bean counter) first. Only time I ever had to run a douche rag down my barrel is when I'm burning $#@* powder and don't feel like putting a little effort into pushing a ball home.Second what Daryl said.......for the umpteenth time,LOL

[Daryl]

I came upon Daryl's method on my own, while making the transition from teflon coated patches to tightly woven cotton patching. I have found that I get the same accuracy as I did with the teflon patching. Also I don't use as many cleaning patches. Daryl of course is correct. Its your choice what you use, whatever makes your skirt fly.

Well, it's not my method, really.  I read about it in Ned Robert's 1934 book, "The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle".  As Ned so aptly put, in the vernacular of the Duchman "Ven you loads der next shot, you cleans der last vun".  I simply experimented to find out how to do that. It took a year or so, but the results have stayed with me for 47 years now.

[Daryl]

I once guided a moose hunt for the owner of Connecticut Valley Arms.  He wouldn't listen to a word of advice I had for him, let alone pay me for it.

That's because what "we" had to say, had nothing to do with the Belt-Mountain jacketed bullets they were shooting in plastic sabots
in their production muzzleloaders.
Besides that, it was an archery hunt, no guns, but they did try to tell us, or persuade us that their jacketed bullets were best.
Perhaps they are saying the same thing, that we wouldn't listen to their advice, so freely given, as was ours.
At all other archery hunts I attended, ALL of the hunters in camp and all of the guides in camp shot our bows late morning and
early afternoon after lunch, keeping in tune.
None of that bunch would shoot with us - interesting.

[hanshi]

Welcome to ALR, allen.  I hate to have to say it again but this "seasoning" myth is a load of $#@*.  Proponents say it works just like "seasoning" your iron skillet; but barrels aren't make from cast iron!  Anyway, this seasoning is supposed to form a crust on the surface of the skillet.  Why would anyone want a crust forming inside a rifle bore?  Such a crust would render the rifling worthless and prevent prb from being seated in the ever-shrinking bore.  Better yet, clean down to the bare steel & use a rust preventative.  Next time swab the bore dry, load with a snug, lubed prb over the polished muzzle crown and seat.  Some lubes work better than others, of course, and barrels will tell you what they prefer.  This approach will allow a day of shooting without wiping; and cleanup will be noticeably easier.