Author Topic: Idea for a knife...  (Read 2818 times)

Offline Mike from OK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
Idea for a knife...
« on: March 23, 2020, 06:01:10 AM »
Lately when shooting my .45 I've been cutting patches at the muzzle... I use a fairly tight combination and have to use the short nub of my ball starter to start the ball in a 1/4" or so then I cut my patch with my knife. Once the ball is started it pushes home pretty easy with my ramrod.

So I've been carrying a ball starter that I only use the short nub on. Just another extra thing to keep track of.

Has anyone ever made a knife that has a small starter nub in the end of the handle? Belt knife or patch knife wouldn't really matter. Although I'm not a patch knife guy ( I prefer a larger knife ) and a full size belt knife would make it easier to manipulate.

I'm not going to try and take credit for this idea as I'm sure someone smarter than I am already thought of it... But I haven't seen one yet... Admittedly I haven't really looked for one either.

Would it even be possible to do? If so it would save me a step or two in loading and eliminate having to carry one extra item.

Anybody have one or even seen one?

Mike

Smokey Plainsman

  • Guest
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2020, 06:10:49 AM »
Good idea. I came across and 1830s or 1840s article demonstrating loading and they mentioned starting the ball with the handle of the knife like that. Not sure if your one of those “HC/PC” people or if you could care less or not.

Offline smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7907
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2020, 06:11:19 AM »
I made just such a knife. I streched the tang out and filed it round,run a 1/4x20 die over it and made an end cap with a 1/4x20 hole in it and turned it down tight then drilled out the 8x32 hole in a jag and re-tapped it to 1/4 by 20,screwed that to what was left over of the threaded tang.

Offline Mike from OK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2020, 06:16:19 AM »
I made just such a knife. I streched the tang out and filed it round,run a 1/4x20 die over it and made an end cap with a 1/4x20 hole in it and turned it down tight then drilled out the 8x32 hole in a jag and re-tapped it to 1/4 by 20,screwed that to what was left over of the threaded tang.

Thanks smylee! Just the info I was looking for.

Mike

Offline smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7907
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2020, 06:51:31 AM »
Mike, I should also say that I only used the "button" of a button jag and drilled all the way through it when I redrilled and tapped it. I cut the excess tang off so it would bottom out in the cup of the jag when it was tight.

Offline Mike from OK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2020, 07:44:21 AM »
Good idea. I came across and 1830s or 1840s article demonstrating loading and they mentioned starting the ball with the handle of the knife like that. Not sure if your one of those “HC/PC” people or if you could care less or not.

Smokey I wouldn't even know where to begin to look. But Im almost positive I read an account of someone using the end of their knife handle to start a ball... "A smart rap with the end of his knife handle" comes to mind. But I might have dreamt that too. ;D

Having a starter nub in the end of the knife handle is a bit of a leap from that... But whatever. Short starters aren't really correct to the early accounts either.

I'm more interested in being able to discard a (relatively bulky) item that only has one purpose... I need a knife to cut patches and a short nub to start, so a knife with a nub seems to be the answer.

It has merit... To me anyway.

Mike

Offline Mike from OK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2020, 07:50:37 AM »
Mike, I should also say that I only used the "button" of a button jag and drilled all the way through it when I redrilled and tapped it. I cut the excess tang off so it would bottom out in the cup of the jag when it was tight.

That's good to know. I don't think I would attempt this though. If I decide I truly want one I may ask one of the fine artists here to make it for me.

Mike

Offline Elnathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1773
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2020, 02:07:17 PM »
Smokey I wouldn't even know where to begin to look. But Im almost positive I read an account of someone using the end of their knife handle to start a ball... "A smart rap with the end of his knife handle" comes to mind. But I might have dreamt that too. ;D

James Audubon, c.1810 IIRC.

"He blows through his rifle to ascertain that it is clear, examines his flint, and thrusts a feather into the touch-hole. To a leathern bag swung at his side is attached a powder-horn; his sheath-knife is there also; below hangs a narrow strip of homespun linen. He takes from his bag a bullet, pulls with his teeth the wooden stopper from his powder-horn, lays the ball in one hand, and with the other pours the powder upon it until it is just overtopped. Raising the horn to his mouth, he again closes it with the stopper, and restores it to its place. He introduces the powder into the tube; springs the box of his gun, greases the "patch"over with some melted tallow, or damps it; then places it on the honey-combed muzzle of his piece. The bullet is placed on the patch over the bore, and pressed with the handle of the knife, which now trims the edge of the linen. The elastic hickory rod, held with both hands, smoothly pushes the ball to its bed; once, twice, thrice has it rebounded. The rifle leaps as it were into the hunters arms, the feather is drawn from the touch-hole, the powder fills the pan, which is closed."
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

Offline Marcruger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3702
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2020, 03:29:22 PM »
I have seen stag handled knives with the end shaped to function as a ball starter.  I am sure it works.  Looked a bit like the knife hemorrhoid issues though.   ;-) 

God Bless,  Marc

Offline T*O*F

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5122
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2020, 04:05:06 PM »
I made one with a deer femur as a handle.  Poured the cavity and endcap full of hard pewter and filed it flat.  No nub needed as it will press the ball flat with the muzzle.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline John SMOthermon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 538
  • John SMOthermon
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2020, 04:47:47 PM »
Smokey I wouldn't even know where to begin to look. But Im almost positive I read an account of someone using the end of their knife handle to start a ball... "A smart rap with the end of his knife handle" comes to mind. But I might have dreamt that too. ;D

James Audubon, c.1810 IIRC.

"He blows through his rifle to ascertain that it is clear, examines his flint, and thrusts a feather into the touch-hole. To a leathern bag swung at his side is attached a powder-horn; his sheath-knife is there also; below hangs a narrow strip of homespun linen. He takes from his bag a bullet, pulls with his teeth the wooden stopper from his powder-horn, lays the ball in one hand, and with the other pours the powder upon it until it is just overtopped. Raising the horn to his mouth, he again closes it with the stopper, and restores it to its place. He introduces the powder into the tube; springs the box of his gun, greases the "patch"over with some melted tallow, or damps it; then places it on the honey-combed muzzle of his piece. The bullet is placed on the patch over the bore, and pressed with the handle of the knife, which now trims the edge of the linen. The elastic hickory rod, held with both hands, smoothly pushes the ball to its bed; once, twice, thrice has it rebounded. The rifle leaps as it were into the hunters arms, the feather is drawn from the touch-hole, the powder fills the pan, which is closed."

Looks like bouncing the ramrod is HC/PC as well....once , twice, thrice has it rebounded.
Smo

Good Luck & Good Shootin'

Offline tippit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 377
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2020, 06:14:37 PM »
Sounds pretty easy to do...just want to make sure your design is safe so your hand doesn't slip onto the cutting edge of the blade.

Offline Bob McBride

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2840
  • TENNESSEE
    • Black Powder TV
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2020, 06:34:20 PM »
Smokey I wouldn't even know where to begin to look. But Im almost positive I read an account of someone using the end of their knife handle to start a ball... "A smart rap with the end of his knife handle" comes to mind. But I might have dreamt that too. ;D

James Audubon, c.1810 IIRC.

"He blows through his rifle to ascertain that it is clear, examines his flint, and thrusts a feather into the touch-hole. To a leathern bag swung at his side is attached a powder-horn; his sheath-knife is there also; below hangs a narrow strip of homespun linen. He takes from his bag a bullet, pulls with his teeth the wooden stopper from his powder-horn, lays the ball in one hand, and with the other pours the powder upon it until it is just overtopped. Raising the horn to his mouth, he again closes it with the stopper, and restores it to its place. He introduces the powder into the tube; springs the box of his gun, greases the "patch"over with some melted tallow, or damps it; then places it on the honey-combed muzzle of his piece. The bullet is placed on the patch over the bore, and pressed with the handle of the knife, which now trims the edge of the linen. The elastic hickory rod, held with both hands, smoothly pushes the ball to its bed; once, twice, thrice has it rebounded. The rifle leaps as it were into the hunters arms, the feather is drawn from the touch-hole, the powder fills the pan, which is closed."

Looks like bouncing the ramrod is HC/PC as well....once , twice, thrice has it rebounded.

That's actually in the manual i believe for the 1816 Springfield up to about the '42 if i remember correctly.

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2020, 07:07:19 PM »
 8) 8) 8)... My little patch knife was made for me a couple years ago by "Stoner Creek" and his daughter up in Kentucky  ,... I believe he said a tine from a horse-drawn hay rake was forged into the blade,.. handle is a small crown antler, with a short-starter shaped into the butt-end,.. had a concave recess hollowed into that which is just right for a .40-.45cal ball,...pushes ball down about 1/2", which is enough to get a good go with my rammer,... blade is 3 3/4" drop point,... fits my hand just right,..I have seen some that Hershel made using same concept,... those Kentucky boys know how to do things,.... regards,...  Cades Cove Fiddler...




Offline tippit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 377
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2020, 12:15:32 AM »
You could even do a reverse deer antler handle and use one of the tines from the side...tippit



Offline mark brier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 315
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2020, 03:04:00 AM »
Here is one that is part of my set up for one of my Hawken rifles.
Mark Brier




Offline mark brier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 315
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2020, 03:12:10 AM »
While I’m at it I’ll show my turn screw in that bag. I keep seeing all these large heavy turn screws being forged but prefer smaller and more graceful myself.
Mark Brier


Offline Mike from OK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2020, 07:53:09 AM »
Lots of good ideas here...

Y'all are going to make me spend money.

Mike

Offline smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7907
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2020, 08:37:11 AM »
Thats a good looking knife Mark and I had one a lot like it too. With the nub on the flat like that I found it easier to operate than the one I had with the nub in the end of the handle with the tight loads that In shoot.

Offline smokinbuck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2020, 01:31:52 PM »
I like the starter nub to be on the side of the knife handle. You can pace it on the ball and give it a smack with your other hand. No chance of a hand sliding off the handle and on to the blade.
Mark

Offline Craig Wilcox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2532
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2020, 07:46:54 PM »
There is such a knife, with antler short starter on the handle, recently posted in this "Accoutrements" section.  Good looking little patch knife.
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

Offline tippit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 377
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2020, 08:28:15 PM »
Just forged this one yesterday.  Quenched the blade this morning and will put it together in a day or so.  Haven't decided if I grind down the brow tine/ball starter or leave it as is...tippit




Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

  • Member 3
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12671
Re: Idea for a knife...
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2020, 07:22:27 AM »
I made a knife with a starting button many years ago, though I don't use it much anymore, preferring precut and lubed patches.  It started its life as a carving set, as in meat carving, and was worn past where it's previous owner thought it was useful.  But it's perfect for me and my purposes.  It takes a wonderful edge with just a single cut mill bastard file.









D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.