Author Topic: Carolina trade gun help (Read 3988 times)

far55 · « **on:** March 01, 2019, 06:29:01 AM »

Living in south central PA. I have a lot of choices on local style guns to build. I am partial to the early PA. styles and in fact have several waiting to start on, but I have been kicking around building something different, a Carolina trade gun. Maybe one of those painted ones even. I have enlarged a photo to get a pattern ,figuring the wrist at 1-1/8" at the smallest part , the butt came out to 4-1/2" and the pull is about 14" How does this sound to those of you who are familiar with this type gun? I do not have a top or bottom view of the gun. I have quite a few books, but nothing on trade guns, so any suggestions in that area that would help on this build would be appreciated. I have a Chambers round face English lock and was wondering if this would be appropriate ?
Thanks, Roland

msellers · « **Reply #1 on:** March 01, 2019, 07:34:07 AM »

Mike Brooks made a dandy Carolina trade gun, here is a link to his old site.

http://www.fowlingguns.com

Mike

James Rogers · « **Reply #2 on:** March 01, 2019, 07:37:11 AM »

This is a good resource for all angle colour pics
It contains the vine painted trade gun from Williamsburg

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/267/1/BOOK-OSFP

Frank · « **Reply #3 on:** March 01, 2019, 11:21:53 AM »

Clay Smith has some good pictures of Trade guns. Also has a very nice kit available.

https://claysmithguns.com/tradeguns1a.htm

conquerordie · « **Reply #4 on:** March 01, 2019, 03:29:30 PM »

I stocked a "spotted stocked" trade gun a few years ago. Wish I never sold that one. Anyway, email Clay Smith. He has already sorts of insights into these weapons. Big help with my project .

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #5 on:** March 01, 2019, 04:58:22 PM »

I wouldn't automatically figure the smallest part of the wrist is 1 1/8". Probably something between 1 1/4" and 1 3/8". Trigger pull is probably closer to 13".
Disregard all of the above if you're copying the Bumford, which is I believe a one off anomaly. There is no archeological evidence to support any number of this pattern of gun.

jrb · « **Reply #6 on:** March 01, 2019, 06:40:50 PM »

the chambers round face early English lock has a pan bridle and photos I've seen of several type type Gs don't

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #7 on:** March 01, 2019, 06:49:13 PM »

Quote from: jrb on March 01, 2019, 06:40:50 PM

the chambers round face early English lock has a pan bridle and photos I've seen of several type type Gs don't

That's why I usually use the RE davis English lock. There is a guy out there that makes Chambers locks unbridled too. To be really correct the lock shouldn't be bridled on the inside either.

rich pierce · « **Reply #8 on:** March 01, 2019, 07:14:42 PM »

Quote from: Mike Brooks on March 01, 2019, 04:58:22 PM

I wouldn't automatically figure the smallest part of the wrist is 1 1/8". Probably something between 1 1/4" and 1 3/8". Trigger pull is probably closer to 13".
Disregard all of the above if you're copying the Bumford, which is I believe a one off anomaly. There is no archeological evidence to support any number of this pattern of gun.

It’s a miracle the Bumford gun never broke in the wrist. I guess beech is tough.

far55 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 02, 2019, 05:58:34 PM »

Thanks for your replies, it must have been a Bumford that I was looking over at a show I attended. It had the smallest round wrist I have ever seen on a full size gun and was really light. I guess I will save the Chambers lock for another project. I will look into the book suggested. Thanks again, Roland

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2019, 06:42:34 PM »

Quote from: far55 on March 02, 2019, 05:58:34 PM

Thanks for your replies, it must have been a Bumford that I was looking over at a show I attended. It had the smallest round wrist I have ever seen on a full size gun and was really light. I guess I will save the Chambers lock for another project. I will look into the book suggested. Thanks again, Roland

The barrel profile is critical on these too, just as important as the lock style. They are very light, there isn't a suitable "ready made" barrel on the market. Special order only.

jrb · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2019, 10:08:01 PM »

Far55, another book that has photos of the Williamsburg bumford is "For Trade and Treaty" by Ryan Gale. there's 6 pages and he lists a number of dimensions of that particular gun.

then Jack Brooks sells a drawing of a type G that's by Wilson, showing a full size side view tracing of the stock, tracings of that guns trigger guard, buttplate, serpent sideplate, escutcheon. he lists the barrel outside diameter every couple inches and the wood stock widths at a few places. that ones barrel is currently 0.97" at the breech and 45" long. he doesn't show the lock.

fahnenschmied · « **Reply #12 on:** March 08, 2019, 05:10:52 PM »

I'm building a Carolina gun, based on the TR gun, with details from the Yuchi burial gun. I enlarged a photo of the profile of the TR gun to start from. The wrist is something about 1 3/8 or 1 1/4, the trigger pull about 13", the height of the butt about 4 3/4. You could copy about any period fowling piece stock for a start - its really the furniture that makes it what it is.

rich pierce · « **Reply #13 on:** March 08, 2019, 05:16:42 PM »

Quote from: fahnenschmied on March 08, 2019, 05:10:52 PM

I'm building a Carolina gun, based on the TR gun, with details from the Yuchi burial gun. I enlarged a photo of the profile of the TR gun to start from. The wrist is something about 1 3/8 or 1 1/4, the trigger pull about 13", the height of the butt about 4 3/4. You could copy about any period fowling piece stock for a start - its really the furniture that makes it what it is.

Sounds like a great build. Do keep us posted. Davis lock?

jrb · « **Reply #14 on:** March 08, 2019, 06:07:22 PM »

the 2 originals I have measurements from have VERY tiny wrists in the cross section just near the place the comb ends. they don't look like a typical fowler at all to me through the wrist area.

the Williamsburg Bumford shown in Ryan Gale's book is only listed as 1.065" wide and 1.110" high.

the "Wilson" measured by Jack Brooks is shown on his blueprint as 1 1/8" wide and 1 1/4" high

far55 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 09, 2019, 03:46:47 AM »

Thanks for this information, guys. Roland

fahnenschmied · « **Reply #16 on:** April 04, 2020, 03:44:06 AM »

Quote from: rich pierce on March 08, 2019, 05:16:42 PM

Quote from: fahnenschmied on March 08, 2019, 05:10:52 PM
I'm building a Carolina gun, based on the TR gun, with details from the Yuchi burial gun. I enlarged a photo of the profile of the TR gun to start from. The wrist is something about 1 3/8 or 1 1/4, the trigger pull about 13", the height of the butt about 4 3/4. You could copy about any period fowling piece stock for a start - its really the furniture that makes it what it is.

Sounds like a great build. Do keep us posted. Davis lock?

Sorry, I overlooked this reply. No, no Davis lock, but one built from castings from Rifle Shoppe. Sideplate came from North Star West and is much better and larger than one my friend got from the Rifle Shoppe. Rammer pipes are folded inside the barrel channel and the rammer finished with a "rammer tack".

Marcruger · « **Reply #17 on:** April 04, 2020, 06:01:56 PM »

Hi Mike,

"That's why I usually use the RE davis English lock. There is a guy out there that makes Chambers locks unbridled too. To be really correct the lock shouldn't be bridled on the inside either."

The fellow that does the Chambers round-faced build with a bridleless conversion is Chris Evrard. He's done a couple of batches of these. Chris assembles locks for Jim Chambers. The conversion batch he did were also highly tuned and fitted. There is a thread on ALR where he did these. I'll check and see where to find it.

Best wishes, Marc

Marcruger · « **Reply #18 on:** April 04, 2020, 06:12:09 PM »

Here's the link. https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=45711.0

The pictures aren't showing, a result of the PhotoBucket misery I am sure.

Here's a photo.....

rich pierce · « **Reply #19 on:** April 04, 2020, 06:16:13 PM »

I have a Davis round faced lock that sparks great. Looks right also for many mid 1700s English trade guns and cheap export fowling pieces.

smallpatch · « **Reply #20 on:** April 05, 2020, 02:33:49 AM »

Here's one of Mike's from a few years back. Shoots like a champ, weighs about 6 lbs.

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Author Topic: Carolina trade gun help (Read 3988 times)