Author Topic: Choosing Longrifle Plans (Read 3238 times)

John Morris · « **on:** March 30, 2020, 07:32:27 AM »

Dear folks, I have narrowed my interest down to three plans, if you have a mind too, if you have a few seconds to kill.
Here they are:

This first rifle, I love what appears to me to be the quintessential long rifle look. It even appears to be the same rifle as is the logo for these forums.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/304/1/PLAN-VIRGINIA

For the following two rifles, I love the graceful drop in the rear stock, with the smooth transition at the top of the rifle from the lock to the rear, if that makes sense, my terminology is horrible right now.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/304/1/PLAN-RUPP

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/304/1/PLAN-BEDFORD

Being new at this, is there anything that completely pops out that says, this newbie should stay away from any of these rifles for now, such as, over my head, etc? I could study rifles till the cows come home, for a year, and never get to building, I feel I just need to jump in and do it. I'll be building from a billet of lumber, no kits right now. And ordering lock and barrel and castings.
I greatly appreciate any feedback, criticism, laughter, all of it. Thanks completely.

Bill Raby · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2020, 08:37:53 AM »

Of the three the Virginia rifle will be the easiest to build to plans. Nothing complicated going on there. The Rupp riflle is often considered to be difficult. It really is not. Problem is that there are a number of small nuances in the shape of the stock. There is nothing hard about building it, but you really have to do your research to get it all historically correct. Of course if you screw it up a bit and don't get every little bit just perfect, very few people outside of this forum would ever notice. The carving on the Rupp would be the most difficult of the three. You would not have that problem with the Bedford rifle. On that one the patch box is what would give you a headache. It has a number of cut out open spaces in it. Inletting that is going to be a bit of work.

None of these is getting over your head. Each one will have its own challenges. Just remember that you do not have to build exactly to the plans. When I build a gun I try to make it readily identifiable as a certain style. I do not try to copy a specific gun, or even a specific builder. It is perfectly fine to use a different patch box or carving design. Or make one up on your own. Just keep it true to the region and time period. Also, your gun does not actually need any patch box or carving at all. Originally that was all optional and cost extra. The guy that could barely afford any rifle at all did not blow extra money on the fancy stuff. A sliding patch box does not need any ornamentation at all. But a brass patch box just looks wrong without any engraving. So plan on that if you go that way.

You do not need to decide on patch box or carving at the start. That all comes last. So what you do is set aside a day or two a week for practicing. Practice the carving and patch box inletting. You will start to get a feel for what your abilities are and modify the design to something suitable. By the time you get to doing it for real you will have some idea of what you are doing. The gun I am working on now will be pretty heavy on engraving. That is my weak point. So I will be putting in lots of practice time as I go.

Virginia rifle has nothing complicated. Challenge on the Rupp will be carving and basic architecture. Challenge on the Bedford will be inletting patch box. These are not things that should hold you back. Go with whatever one you like best. Don't even let the engraving be an obstacle. Setting up a Lindsay Airgraver will cost a couple thousand dollars. Nice to have, but you don't need it. All engraving was done with hammer and chisel for hundreds of years. You can get set up for that for about $20. Go with whatever plans you like best. They don't cost much so buy all three.

steven baker · « **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2020, 10:34:57 AM »

Hi John, just a quick note of support for your new hobby and creative endeavour that you are going to undertake .What ever the model you choose is up to you ,I cant help with advice on that. As I say sometimes to good keen folks " thinking about it is doing it" take it or leave it. I remember my first build " yuk" but I shore had fun in the build,back in those days watching re runs of "Daniel Boone" with Fess Parker was the only resource that I had for a long rifle project. Today information is astounding .Just to conclude above all is have fun and enjoy your skills ,go ahead and let that gun out of the wood and metal, take care Steven.

heinz · « **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2020, 03:06:03 PM »

John, I would support Bill Raby's suggestion.
On your first build, there is a tendency to leave more wood than is necessary or appropriate. That "feel" of much less wood than in a modern rifle is easier to get used to in a classic American rifle form like the Va rifle. Both the Rupp and Bedford county styles are a little more off the mainstream with some very thin wood areas in the forearm and the wrist/lock area.

Have fun!

rich pierce · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2020, 03:35:43 PM »

You might also consider caliber and shooting comfort.

BJH · « **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2020, 04:03:49 PM »

I would lean towards the Virginia style plan. Of your choices, My expierence with Lehigh or Rupp style stocks is they are tough on my cheek. If track has a Beck or early Lancaster plan you might be best served of all. For shooting comfort. Especially for calibers above 45. Up to .45 most anything is tolerable, stock desig wise as long as the length of pull fits you. There’s a saying here amongst some of us in central Pa. Becks feel good to mostly everybody. Early Lancaster styles would be next. With the only differences being really subtle to a beginners eye. BJH

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #6 on:** March 30, 2020, 04:25:30 PM »

These patterns are just a "suggestion". Unless you use the exact same parts, Buttplate, Barrel and lock, the pattern will not lay out properly.

heinz · « **Reply #7 on:** March 30, 2020, 04:27:25 PM »

BJH, from the iron mounted contingent :-)

pjmcdonald · « **Reply #8 on:** March 30, 2020, 05:03:17 PM »

John,

Muzzleloader Builder Supply also carries some different rifle drawings/plans. I’d also recommend Eric von Aschwege’s drawings http://www.vonaschwegeflintlocks.com/plans.html. Eric’s drawings are art in themselves.

I haven’t tackled a Lehigh valley build yet, like a Rupp. I didn’t understand some of the nuances until I actually held one of Eric’s and he showed me. I think it was styled after Peter Niehart. That is the thing with some styles - they aren’t necessarily harder to build, just a little more difficult to understand in 2D.

I might also suggest while you are researching, learn to draw. I gathered about 8 or 10 different sets of drawings from various sources, then bought a roll of vellum, got out my old drafting kit, and started with tracings. Then set about making some of my own drawings, based on a few NC style rifles I like from Bill Ivey’s book.

Drawing and sketching are cheap and something you might do while assembling parts and learning. Heck, make it art class for the kids while under home school quarantine!

For paper, I use Blick https://www.dickblick.com/items/10535-1012/. I prefer vellum but the cheaper tracing paper works fine. Or get a roll of unwaxed butcher paper from the grocery store. Good enough to start.

Have fun!

Paul

Greg Pennell · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2020, 05:24:35 AM »

Our own Mark Elliott has a beautifully drawn plan for a Virginia rifle on his website, free to download and use. I had mine printed out, full sized, at Staples, for just a few bucks...looks so nice I’m thinking about framing it for the gun room.

Greg

John Morris · « **Reply #10 on:** April 02, 2020, 06:42:17 AM »

Folks, I have read every reply here, and I want to thank you all, as usual it's been a-holes and elbows at my day job, and I have not been able to get on here much to reply to each, I want to come back this weekend and address and thank each one of you who replied, thanks so much!
I know, the same reply I made at Long Rifle Schools topic, sorry!

Marcruger · « **Reply #11 on:** April 02, 2020, 04:33:21 PM »

"These patterns are just a "suggestion". Unless you use the exact same parts, Buttplate, Barrel and lock, the pattern will not lay out properly."

Free, great words of wisdom from an very experienced maker.

smallpatch · « **Reply #12 on:** April 02, 2020, 09:58:18 PM »

The Virginia will be the easiest to follow and complete to plans.
Please don't attempt a Lehigh for your first gun. Not a straight line anywhere from the lock back. You will end up with an uncomfortable gun that is a cheek slapper if you don't get it right.
I've built a dozen or so, and have had guidance from the Lehigh Jedi, but am just now getting them right.
Not for beginners! I've built well over 100 guns total. Maybe I'm just a slow learner.

TommyG · « **Reply #13 on:** April 03, 2020, 03:17:27 AM »

Some great advice from these talented and experienced builders. I will be attempting a Lehigh build on my next gun, it will be #7 for me. i wouldn't have considered it any earlier. I don't know enough about the VA guns to comment, but Lancaster guns are a nice option as well. Also, along with the correct parts, furniture, etc.. You will need to adjust the plans for you personal LOP, drop at comb, etc. You want to be able to shoulder the gun and have it fit you.

Daryl · « **Reply #14 on:** April 03, 2020, 04:36:27 AM »

This https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/304/1/PLAN-VIRGINIA is the one turns my crank up high, but it appears a bit thick (deep) in the forend.

John Morris · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2020, 07:05:14 AM »

Quote from: Bill Raby on March 30, 2020, 08:37:53 AM

Of the three the Virginia rifle will be the easiest to build to plans.

Bill, thanks for the in depth reply as always for this newbie, appreciate it greatly. We went ahead and had the Virginia plans sent to us, my son and I were pouring over them a couple days ago and we are hyped.

We are going to head out to an NMLRA weekly shoot in a few weeks once all this Covid stuff sorts itself out. And we are going to hopefully shoot a few rifles. I am considering purchasing a beginner rifle as well in the near future, it just seems like I should at least know how to send a ball out of the barrel at least, before I build one.

Hey, tonight I am going to fire up the YouTube and get back on your video series, I am up to episode 8 and ready to keep on keeping on. As soon as I turn your tutorial on, the family will high tail it out and I'll get the whole family room quietly to myself.

Thanks again Bill, for all your help.

John Morris · « **Reply #16 on:** April 05, 2020, 07:07:45 AM »

Quote from: steven baker on March 30, 2020, 10:34:57 AM

Hi John, just a quick note of support for your new hobby and creative endeavour that you are going to undertake .What ever the model you choose is up to you ,I cant help with advice on that. As I say sometimes to good keen folks " thinking about it is doing it" take it or leave it. I remember my first build " yuk" but I shore had fun in the build,back in those days watching re runs of "Daniel Boone" with Fess Parker was the only resource that I had for a long rifle project. Today information is astounding .Just to conclude above all is have fun and enjoy your skills ,go ahead and let that gun out of the wood and metal, take care Steven.

Steven I greatly appreciate that. Specially the memories watching Daniel Boone as a kid, used to love it. Still catch a rerun now and then.
Someday I just hope to speak proper terminology around here, that would be a great goal in itself!

John Morris · « **Reply #17 on:** April 05, 2020, 07:08:38 AM »

Quote from: heinz on March 30, 2020, 03:06:03 PM

John, I would support Bill Raby's suggestion.
On your first build, there is a tendency to leave more wood than is necessary or appropriate. That "feel" of much less wood than in a modern rifle is easier to get used to in a classic American rifle form like the Va rifle. Both the Rupp and Bedford county styles are a little more off the mainstream with some very thin wood areas in the forearm and the wrist/lock area.

Have fun!

Thank you Heinz!

John Morris · « **Reply #18 on:** April 05, 2020, 07:09:01 AM »

Quote from: rich pierce on March 30, 2020, 03:35:43 PM

You might also consider caliber and shooting comfort.

Thanks Rich!

John Morris · « **Reply #19 on:** April 05, 2020, 07:09:52 AM »

Quote from: BJH on March 30, 2020, 04:03:49 PM

I would lean towards the Virginia style plan. Of your choices, My expierence with Lehigh or Rupp style stocks is they are tough on my cheek. If track has a Beck or early Lancaster plan you might be best served of all. For shooting comfort. Especially for calibers above 45. Up to .45 most anything is tolerable, stock desig wise as long as the length of pull fits you. There’s a saying here amongst some of us in central Pa. Becks feel good to mostly everybody. Early Lancaster styles would be next. With the only differences being really subtle to a beginners eye. BJH

BGH, thank you for that, appreciate the advice!

John Morris · « **Reply #20 on:** April 05, 2020, 07:10:25 AM »

Quote from: Mike Brooks on March 30, 2020, 04:25:30 PM

These patterns are just a "suggestion". Unless you use the exact same parts, Buttplate, Barrel and lock, the pattern will not lay out properly.

Finding that out by reading these topics Mike, appreciate it much!

John Morris · « **Reply #21 on:** April 05, 2020, 07:13:26 AM »

Quote from: pjmcdonald on March 30, 2020, 05:03:17 PM

John,

Muzzleloader Builder Supply also carries some different rifle drawings/plans. I’d also recommend Eric von Aschwege’s drawings http://www.vonaschwegeflintlocks.com/plans.html. Eric’s drawings are art in themselves.

I haven’t tackled a Lehigh valley build yet, like a Rupp. I didn’t understand some of the nuances until I actually held one of Eric’s and he showed me. I think it was styled after Peter Niehart. That is the thing with some styles - they aren’t necessarily harder to build, just a little more difficult to understand in 2D.

I might also suggest while you are researching, learn to draw. I gathered about 8 or 10 different sets of drawings from various sources, then bought a roll of vellum, got out my old drafting kit, and started with tracings. Then set about making some of my own drawings, based on a few NC style rifles I like from Bill Ivey’s book.

Drawing and sketching are cheap and something you might do while assembling parts and learning. Heck, make it art class for the kids while under home school quarantine!

For paper, I use Blick https://www.dickblick.com/items/10535-1012/. I prefer vellum but the cheaper tracing paper works fine. Or get a roll of unwaxed butcher paper from the grocery store. Good enough to start.

Have fun!

Paul

Paul, this is great advice, thanks so much! My wife shops Blick often, it's a wonderful place.
Coincidentally before I started this topic I was on Eric von Aschwege’s site and I loved his plans, was ready to purchase and read an advisory on his site that he was moving to new digs and plans are not available for sale yet, I was a tad disappointed, but I gots time, I'll circle back in a while see if he's up and running. Thanks Paul!

John Morris · « **Reply #22 on:** April 05, 2020, 07:18:10 AM »

Quote from: Greg Pennell on March 31, 2020, 05:24:35 AM

Our own Mark Elliott has a beautifully drawn plan for a Virginia rifle on his website, free to download and use. I had mine printed out, full sized, at Staples, for just a few bucks...looks so nice I’m thinking about framing it for the gun room.

Greg

Greg, I managed to Google his name and found the plan to download, thanks for the heads up, and thanks to Mark Eilliot for providing that!

John Morris · « **Reply #23 on:** April 05, 2020, 07:19:34 AM »

Quote from: smallpatch on April 02, 2020, 09:58:18 PM

The Virginia will be the easiest to follow and complete to plans.
Please don't attempt a Lehigh for your first gun. Not a straight line anywhere from the lock back. You will end up with an uncomfortable gun that is a cheek slapper if you don't get it right.
If built a dozen or so, and have had guidance from the Lehigh Jedi, but am just now getting them right.
Not for beginners!

Dane, thank you for steering me away from disaster, appreciate it!

John Morris · « **Reply #24 on:** April 05, 2020, 07:20:57 AM »

Quote from: TommyG on April 03, 2020, 03:17:27 AM

Some great advice from these talented and experienced builders. I will be attempting a Lehigh build on my next gun, it will be #7 for me. i wouldn't have considered it any earlier. I don't know enough about the VA guns to comment, but Lancaster guns are a nice option as well. Also, along with the correct parts, furniture, etc.. You will need to adjust the plans for you personal LOP, drop at comb, etc. You want to be able to shoulder the gun and have it fit you.

Thank you Tommy for the wonderful advice, you are on your 7th gun? How long does it take someone build 7 guns? I can't even imagine that right now.

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Author Topic: Choosing Longrifle Plans (Read 3238 times)

John Morris

John Morris

John Morris

John Morris

John Morris

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John Morris

John Morris

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John Morris