Author Topic: 1/4 28 touch hole insert with no touch hole (Read 2923 times)

sonny · « **on:** March 31, 2020, 08:24:15 AM »

Hello, I was wondering if anybody knew of a stainless 1/4 28 touch hole liner that had no touch hole so it could be installed an then have the location of the touch hole drilled an then cone it like a white lightning liner. I bought a flintlock with the touch hole too low an cannot put a larger liner as it will be raised about the barrel flat into the next barrel flat.... I tried lowering the pan to get the powder away from the touch hole but I might need more height to be at the setting sun position for hole placement. Can anybody help me???.....................sonny

Stophel · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2020, 09:07:58 AM »

A liner like that would be something that you'd just have to make.

Now.... this "touch hole too low" thing... where exactly is the touch hole? It CAN be near the very bottom of the pan, and it will be FINE. It does NOT have to be at the "sunset position", and you can cover that sucker up with priming powder. All the "common wisdom" about touch holes having to be high, and away from the bottom of the pan, etc. is a myth. There, I said it. Now, a low touch hole may make picking the hole more difficult... but that's something I NEVER have to actually do anyway.

WKevinD · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2020, 06:11:59 PM »

I would check with Barbie at Chambers. I was able to get a few (5/16) that were coned inside but not drilled . Let me know if you want one.

Kevin

bama · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2020, 06:32:33 PM »

I had a local machinist make me up a couple that were coned but not drilled, you might give that a try.

Sometimes I think we make touch hole placement to big of an issue. No doubt that the centered sunset position is the ultimate location and we should strive to achieve that location. I have seen many original rifles and pistols where that were not at this optimal location and were used and in service for a long time. I am not advocating that we should not strive for the sunset location but if your location slightly off I would not sweat it to much.

I saw one original that had the touch hole low as you describe and it was used that way for many years and apparently worked. How do I know this? The bottom of the pan had a groove cut in it from the gas escaping out of the vent hole. Again not suggesting that is OK, just that the touch hole worked at that location. So a little low or high or right or left of center should not be a problem with function.

Scota4570 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2020, 06:40:07 PM »

A picture would help to visualize the issue.

t.caster · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2020, 06:47:35 PM »

I have made a couple in the past from fine thread 5/16" sst bolts. Counterbore the end, screw it in to the right depth, cut off at the barrel and file flush. Now you can place your 1/16" hole where you like it. If it is real far off center you have to get your hole started then aim it to the center of the counterbore.
Yes, it will work.

Frank · « **Reply #6 on:** March 31, 2020, 06:51:26 PM »

!/4 X 28 stainless flathead machine screw available at any hardware store. Fit like Caster describes.

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2020, 07:54:12 PM »

Before everybody sold liners, I used to make them from 1/4x28 stainless all thread purchased from the hardware store.

Hungry Horse

Daryl · « **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2020, 08:11:34 PM »

Rich Pierce's tests show low vent hole is faster than sunset and a covered (with powder) vent hole fastest.

stude283 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2020, 08:39:22 PM »

If you make one from a bolt or allthread what locks the threads? I know you can stop the threads before the bore to lock,but what if threads are already drilled to the end? I've heard loctite,but since heat releases loctite is this sufficient?

jerrywh · « **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2020, 09:50:43 PM »

I agree with Stophel

rich pierce · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2020, 10:00:23 PM »

Quote from: Daryl on March 31, 2020, 08:11:34 PM

Rich Pierce's tests show low vent hole is faster than sunset and a covered (with powder) vent hole fastest.

Or Larry Pletcher, my alter ego.

sonny · « **Reply #12 on:** April 01, 2020, 08:55:11 AM »

Thanks for the reply's gang. I can deepen the pan an get the powder down under the touch hole a bit more. I just wanted a plan "b" if the darn thing is too slow an would be replaceable for speedy ignition. When your target shooting an drawing down on a small spot or tiny novelty item, I don't want to feel or hear anything but bang. Not woosh bang, klunk fiss boom, or flash in the pans (man can that make you feel like a doopa).speed is preferred like sharp scaples in surgery......sonny

Stophel · « **Reply #13 on:** April 01, 2020, 09:45:49 AM »

I always deepen and widen my pans anyway... so I can get even more priming powder in there, piled up and covering the touch hole.

You want speed, your touch hole is already in the right spot. Most ignition problems are going to be with the touch hole itself (mainly, too small) rather than the precise position of the touch hole.

Mike payne · « **Reply #14 on:** April 01, 2020, 11:51:30 AM »

I recently had the same problem after I replaced an old Russ Hamm lock. I got a flat head machine screw cut it off so it wouldn't protrude into breach area. Then made a slight countersink into the side of the barrel. Filed most of the head off loosely installed lock marked the touch hole. Then drilled touch hole backed screw out coned the back side reinstalled filed it flush with the barrel. Works great!

Mike

t.caster · « **Reply #15 on:** April 01, 2020, 04:18:49 PM »

I forgot to mention...I left part of the shoulder on the threads so it could be tightened down into a slight countersink on the barrel, as shown in pics.

Scota4570 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 01, 2020, 07:07:31 PM »

A grub screw with an allen head recess might work out.

B.Habermehl · « **Reply #17 on:** April 01, 2020, 09:28:31 PM »

I used Toms method for years before the white lightning liner came on the market. I used to make them from grade 8 bolts, and would make and fit several for each rifle. I’d hide the spares in counterbores under the side plate. I don’t think I ever used one of the spares because of burn out yet. BJH

Blackpowder Barbie · « **Reply #18 on:** April 01, 2020, 09:38:06 PM »

Quote from: WKevinD on March 31, 2020, 06:11:59 PM

I would check with Barbie at Chambers. I was able to get a few (5/16) that were coned inside but not drilled . Let me know if you want one.

Kevin

Sorry guys this sale was a reject of a 5/16 by 32 thread liner that Kevin was able to make work for his project. It is not something we keep in stock or have in inventory frequently.

Blackpowder Barbie · « **Reply #19 on:** April 01, 2020, 09:50:31 PM »

Since it is still just a hole without any kind of liner in it yet, I'm going to ask a silly question...

Has the gun even been shot to determine if there is a problem that actually needs addressing with a liner yet? Or are we all speculating on something that may not be a problem?

bob in the woods · « **Reply #20 on:** April 02, 2020, 12:49:49 AM »

I'm not speculating at all. It's just fine as is

sonny · « **Reply #21 on:** April 09, 2020, 03:41:50 PM »

The gun was not fired yet with this touch hole inside the pan position. When I checked all the flintlocks I compete with, the hole is obviously low an before I get disgusted with poor ignition speed, now is the time to make it quicker an flawless. The original liner had a bevel on the outside to fill the original hole. I bought some 1/4-28 from TOW an the bevel is not flared out enough to get a seamless fit. I have never made my own touch hole liner but can try it, but what size bolt should I mess around with to get the outside bevel correctly?

Bob Roller · « **Reply #22 on:** April 09, 2020, 04:05:15 PM »

Quote from: Blackpowder Barbie on April 01, 2020, 09:50:31 PM

Since it is still just a hole without any kind of liner in it yet, I'm going to ask a silly question... Has the gun even been shot to determine if there is a problem that actually needs addressing with a liner yet? Or are we all speculating on something that may not be a problem?

Hey "U",
You're making too much sense.We'll have NO MORE of that

.
On the serious side,we hope your health issues are well under control
and STAY that way.
Bob Roller

Daryl · « **Reply #23 on:** April 09, 2020, 08:25:40 PM »

Quote from: rich pierce on March 31, 2020, 10:00:23 PM

Quote from: Daryl on March 31, 2020, 08:11:34 PM
Rich Pierce's tests show low vent hole is faster than sunset and a covered (with powder) vent hole fastest.

Or Larry Pletcher, my alter ego.

Oh yes- sorry Rich. LOL

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Author Topic: 1/4 28 touch hole insert with no touch hole (Read 2923 times)