Author Topic: Ketland locks (Read 4519 times)

Jim Kibler · « **on:** April 02, 2020, 11:24:35 PM »

So we're making good progress with our new locks. We put a batch together the other day and are working on another batch right now. We're on them at full speed so well ge a good stock built up before too long. So to all of those who have order, a little more patience and your kit or lock will be heading your way. The good news is that the performance of these is fantastic. They are extremely smooth, produce plentiful sparks and I believe them to be extremely fast. Perhaps the fastest production locks to have been made in the modern era. More on this later though... Here are a few shots of the batch. Thanks for all the interest and support.

Bob McBride · « **Reply #1 on:** April 02, 2020, 11:32:52 PM »

Make sure you let us know when you get a surplus going so I can call Katherine for one....

Justin Urbantas · « **Reply #2 on:** April 03, 2020, 12:22:12 AM »

Very nice Jim!! Any idea on timeframe for the waterproof version? I'm itching to put one on my sporting rifle. Oh, while I'm at it, are there any issues fitting one to a
1 1/16" barrel?

577SXS · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2020, 02:24:04 PM »

Are all the parts hardened? If so what is the RC on them? What steel are you making the plates from? Very interesting in buying one of these locks.

Thanks, Sam

ranger76 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 06, 2020, 07:24:23 PM »

Jim will this lock fit in your first southern mountain rifle kit?

KentSmith · « **Reply #5 on:** April 07, 2020, 12:10:51 AM »

Like looking in the window of a candy store

Tilefish · « **Reply #6 on:** April 07, 2020, 12:19:07 AM »

Quote from: KentSmith on April 07, 2020, 12:10:51 AM

Like looking in the window of a candy store

My wife just said that exact phrase to me last time I was looking at the picture of those locks.
LOL.

B.Barker · « **Reply #7 on:** April 07, 2020, 03:24:19 AM »

Purty!

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #8 on:** April 07, 2020, 06:19:33 AM »

Quote from: ranger76 on April 06, 2020, 07:24:23 PM

Jim will this lock fit in your first southern mountain rifle kit?

No, someone asked earlier.
Dennis

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #9 on:** April 07, 2020, 04:02:28 PM »

Quote from: 577SXS on April 06, 2020, 02:24:04 PM

Are all the parts hardened? If so what is the RC on them? What steel are you making the plates from? Very interesting in buying one of these locks.

Thanks, Sam

Sam,

All typical parts are hardened (frizzen, springs, tumbler, fly, sear). The tumbler fly and sear are carburized (case hardeneded) mild steel followed by a temper. The final hardness should be around 50-55 HRC. It's not practical to harden more parts since customers need to be able to drill and tap the plate and perhaps engrave them etc. This is how all modern locks are produced. Hope this makes sense.

All the best,
Jim

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #10 on:** April 07, 2020, 04:03:49 PM »

Quote from: Justin Urbantas on April 03, 2020, 12:22:12 AM

Very nice Jim!! Any idea on timeframe for the waterproof version? I'm itching to put one on my sporting rifle. Oh, while I'm at it, are there any issues fitting one to a
1 1/16" barrel?

Sorry, for the late response. Yes, these should fit on this barrel just fine.

Jim

577SXS · « **Reply #11 on:** April 07, 2020, 05:39:38 PM »

Thanks Jim,

My thoughts were to harden the plate after holes were drilled and engraving done. It would be nice the have the tumbler hole hard and slick. Maybe a hard bushing in the hole would be simpler.

Sam

rich pierce · « **Reply #12 on:** April 07, 2020, 05:55:32 PM »

Quote from: 577SXS on April 07, 2020, 05:39:38 PM

Thanks Jim,

My thoughts were to harden the plate after holes were drilled and engraving done. It would be nice the have the tumbler hole hard and slick. Maybe a hard bushing in the hole would be simpler.

Sam

I case harden the tumbler hole using Kasenit. Works nicely.

577SXS · « **Reply #13 on:** April 07, 2020, 07:09:53 PM »

Rich, thanks that's a pretty good idea!

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #14 on:** April 07, 2020, 11:11:59 PM »

Kasenite would probably work well, though I think that the plate will last a very long time as it is. The tolerances of these locks are extremely close so be prepared to the fact that things might not fit exactly right after heating to red and quenching. My suggestion, do nothing. Try things out and if there's a problem address it. These are extremely smooth locks and I can't imagine this making any appreciable difference.

All the best,
Jim

Randall Steffy · « **Reply #15 on:** April 07, 2020, 11:48:39 PM »

When casehardening the tumbler hole in the lock plate with Kasenit, Jim's warning matches my personal experience. I found that when I had a very closely machined fit prior to hardening, after hardening I needed to hone the hole to get the tumbler re-fit and turning again. It seemed like the hole in the plate warped or swelled. Just my 2 pence.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #16 on:** April 08, 2020, 12:00:45 AM »

Quote from: Randall Steffy on April 07, 2020, 11:48:39 PM

When casehardening the tumbler hole in the lock plate with Kasenit, Jim's warning matches my personal experience. I found that when I had a very closely machined fit prior to hardening, after hardening I needed to hone the hole to get the tumbler re-fit and turning again. It seemed like the hole in the plate warped or swelled. Just my 2 pence.

I have experienced the same change in dimensions in some things I made years ago.
Dennis

Eric Krewson · « **Reply #17 on:** April 08, 2020, 04:34:02 PM »

Sometimes there is a bit of overkill in seeking perfection, I keep my tumbler shafts and holes lubricated and doubt if I will ever wear one out.

I don't know if Mr Roller hardens his lock plates or not. I have one of his locks that allegedly has over 50K shots total through it by three different owners since 1972. I sent it back to Mr Roller for a new frizzen, he measured the tolerances just to see how much it had changed since he made it, nothing had changed.

577SXS · « **Reply #18 on:** April 09, 2020, 12:31:54 AM »

Thanks, You all are probably right that hardening the tumbler hole isn't worth doing.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #19 on:** April 09, 2020, 03:56:47 PM »

The only lock plate I ever case hardened was on a percussion target rifle I made for my
own amusement.The lock worked fine until the whole gun was destroyed in a fire long
after I sold it.I have heard of s few of my locks with very high "mileage"and multiple
owners and I am very pleased with the comments about them.TIME and TIME alone
will determine the quality of anything be it locks or anything else.
Now,about replacing frizzens on locks I made decades ago.The Chet Shoults,Maslin
and a Ketland were made from cast steel external parts I bought from Jerry Devaudreuil
in Wooster,Ohio.He has apparently been one of many with an adult dementia and the
supply of these particular parts has dried up.What will become of the moulds I don't
know.I take a part of the blame for NOT laying in some spares for these locks.
The later flint locks I made were based on 3 of the L&R locks,The late English,Durs Egg
and the small Manton.They aeem to be holding up and at this time spare frizzens are
available from L&R.
I wish Jim and Katherine the best possible success with this new lock.It is good looking
and well worth looking at for a build.
Bob Roller

Blacksmoke · « **Reply #20 on:** April 10, 2020, 05:37:57 PM »

Talked to Jim yesterday - the waterproof pan model will be coming in Sept. or Oct. I will want a pair of them for a pair of pistols that have been waiting for a loooong time!
Hugh Toenjes

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #21 on:** April 10, 2020, 06:42:31 PM »

Thanks Hugh. The waterproof pan version may be available a little sooner than September or October, but that's a safe date at this point. We've been shipping out lots of kits with these locks lately and they seem to be working extremely well. I put one in a stock with the trigger the other day and measured the pull off of the un-set front trigger. It was about 2.75 lbs. A fantastic number for an un-set trigger. We're machining more parts right now for a big batch and we'll have plenty available within a few weeks.

Thanks,
Jim

Bob Roller · « **Reply #22 on:** April 10, 2020, 07:32:44 PM »

Quote from: Jim Kibler on April 10, 2020, 06:42:31 PM

Thanks Hugh. The waterproof pan version may be available a little sooner than September or October, but that's a safe date at this point. We've been shipping out lots of kits with these locks lately and they seem to be working extremely well. I put one in a stock with the trigger the other day and measured the pull off of the un-set front trigger. It was about 2.75 lbs. A fantastic number for an un-set trigger. We're machining more parts right now for a big batch and we'll have plenty available within a few weeks.

Thanks,
Jim

Jim,
What you just said about the easy but safe trigger pull proves that
PRECISE fitting works and work well.GOOD JOB!!
Bob Roller

Justin Urbantas · « **Reply #23 on:** April 10, 2020, 09:19:19 PM »

Quote from: Jim Kibler on April 10, 2020, 06:42:31 PM

Thanks Hugh. The waterproof pan version may be available a little sooner than September or October, but that's a safe date at this point. We've been shipping out lots of kits with these locks lately and they seem to be working extremely well. I put one in a stock with the trigger the other day and measured the pull off of the un-set front trigger. It was about 2.75 lbs. A fantastic number for an un-set trigger. We're machining more parts right now for a big batch and we'll have plenty available within a few weeks.

Thanks,
Jim

I'm very excited.
I'm building my English sporting rifle as far as I can until the locks are ready, and I get my hands on one.
Doing the hooked breech, tenons, horn nose cap, rib and thimbles.
The trigger/guard, buttplate will have to wait a bit.

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Author Topic: Ketland locks (Read 4519 times)