Author Topic: Help I found a mark  (Read 7632 times)

Offline Mdlock

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2020, 12:13:18 AM »
Here we go.
Is there a Witherspoon maker. Looking under loop I almost swear it looks like it fits on bottom line. Still cant tell though.










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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2020, 12:35:49 AM »
It "looks" to me as if the sight is a replacement and the striations are from removing the original sight and putting in a new one.

The sight notch does not "appear" to be on the centerline of the barrel.

Photos can be distorted because of the curve of the lens.

Offline Mdlock

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2020, 01:41:26 AM »
I dont think it was replaced but if it is script writing it would be really small. I have searched all over for any other marks only the lock I found one.

Offline Buck

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2020, 05:11:01 PM »
Mdlock - I think it's safe to say they're file marks. Still a nice gun.

Buck

Offline Bob McBride

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2020, 05:30:05 PM »
I can’t imagine how you could engrave cursive script at 20 letters to a half inch. It does look like that’s what it is though.

WESTbury

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2020, 05:56:59 PM »
I rotated the photo and removed the color, as black and white photos usually show more detail. If you look closely, it appears as the lines are not uniform in width or depth. I'm about as far from an expert on engraving as you can get, but I would think that anyone who could engrave fine cursive letters would have a tool that would be capable of producing more uniformity.


Offline bama

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2020, 07:12:02 PM »
If these were just file marks there would not be 3 distinct lines equally spaced apart. I have studied a lot of engraving and how letters are formed by a series of specific graver cuts. Due to the line spacing and spacing of the heavy cuts used to form each letter I do believe this to be engraving. Yes it is in a very unusual location but non the less it is not random file marks. Can I tell you what it says, nope. I will try to see if I can put my theory in action. 
Jim Parker

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Offline EC121

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2020, 07:32:07 PM »
Probably says: "Blackpowder only.  Antonio Zoli."   ;D  ;D
Brice Stultz

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2020, 07:42:35 PM »
It gives the precise location of the Oak Island treasure. Sell it to the TV show “The Curse of Oak Island”. I’m sure they will make a connection.
Andover, Vermont

Offline JTR

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2020, 08:04:08 PM »
Well, I wonder, given that the 'lines' all seem to be slanting in a similar direction, that there was a glare or shinny spot on the barrel just at this spot, that made it difficult to see the notch in the rear sight.
These lines, at an angle, then with a little corrosion in them, would kill the bright spot.
John Robbins

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2020, 08:19:47 PM »
Now that we have better pics, I'm going with the naysayers.

The lines matching the file marks on the upset bit of barrel-which very much look like file marks is what puts me off the engraving notion. Who would put fine engraving next to file-marks and also line their letters up exactly to match? That there are zero horizontal elements but the one (file) mark that runs all the way across. How would a filer line up his file marks with engraving, if one says the sight work came after the "engraving"?

Would a gun have engraving at one odd place and no where else? 

Hold to the Wind

Offline mbriggs

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2020, 09:05:20 PM »
If the barrel was locked tight in a vice, could the teeth of the vice leave these marks on the barrel?

Michael
C. Michael Briggs

WESTbury

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2020, 09:21:02 PM »
Okay, I promise that this is my last shot at this.

I inserted two rectangles into the photo. I lined the gold color one on the right side of the bottom line of marks and the blue color rectangle on the left side of the bottom line of marks.

As you can see, at least for the bottom line of marks, they are not even close to being in line, left to right.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to prepare myself to watch tonight's episode of The Curse of Oak Island. ;D



Offline Mdlock

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2020, 09:47:27 PM »
I'm more confused than ever. Having it in my hands it seems that all if writing most letters seem to be connected by curved lines.

Offline Mdlock

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2020, 10:49:51 PM »
I found these I only say because it looks like it and has a W and is a long word.
Title
Long rifle
Subject
American long rifles; Kentucky rifle; Firearms; Long guns; Worthington, Thomas, 1773-1827


Offline WadePatton

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2020, 11:01:21 PM »
I'm more confused than ever. Having it in my hands it seems that all if writing most letters seem to be connected by curved lines.

I see no curved lines.
Hold to the Wind

Offline Mdlock

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2020, 11:56:04 PM »
I see curves and those lines are not inline with site. I can see that without my glasses. Who sees curves? I do..

Offline Mdlock

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2020, 12:06:41 AM »
I give up it really will always be a mystery. I can see it both ways as file Mark's and as script. Like I said before its awful small script if it is.

Offline JPK

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2020, 12:11:56 AM »
Some times we see what we want to see. If that is writing then it must of been put on by a watch maker.
A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.

WESTbury

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2020, 12:33:30 AM »
.
Some times we see what we want to see

I see that we are back to Oak Island!  ;)

Offline Collector

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2020, 02:21:17 AM »
This rear sight slot appears to be have a 'pinned/riveted' piece in place, perhaps to remedy a persistently bothersome or loose rear sight, or a slot too long for the sight.  It takes an extra set of hands to do that and if you're working by yourself, you would call on your old friend 'Mr. Vise' to help out. 

I don't believe those are file marks, or teensy-weensy, itty-bitty lines of script, but rather display the pattern consistency of the facings of a vise tightened on soft iron/metal, perhaps to crush the pin/rivet heads. 

Regardless, this rear sight/slot was repaired and tools had to be used to accomplish that. Maybe the customer who brought the rifle in for repair was too cheap to spring for an brand new rear sight?

[These marks remind of a lady at my church who had a little brown calf as a pet when she was a child, that one day disappeared and was never, ever seen again.  75 years later she was still wondering, asking and looking for a answer.  One day I just had to break it to her that her father had sold it to some nice Italian people down the road, who owned a restaurant and her pet, the little brown calf that followed her around, was a house specialty.  The shock was therapeutic and eventually, she did recover...  The End]         
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 04:19:34 AM by Collector »

WESTbury

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2020, 02:53:48 PM »
It would be interesting to dismount the barrel to see if there are vise jaw marks on the opposite barrel flat. I agree with COLLECTOR, the rear sight has either been repaired or replaced.

Offline Mdlock

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2020, 10:34:37 PM »
How difficult would that be?  Could I damage it in doing so? Maybe marked somewhere not visible.

WESTbury

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2020, 12:23:29 AM »
Mdlock---I've "field stripped" hundreds of military muskets, rifle muskets, and rifles but never one of my longrifles. Longrifles are a little more delicate, military arms are like tanks.

My method for taking apart a musket is:
1--Remove ramrod.
2--Loosen the barrel tang screw one full turn.
3--Put the lock on half-cock if the arm is percussion.
4--Loosen the front and rear lock screws making sure the lock side of the arms is supported in case the lock falls out. Do not pry the lock out with a screwdriver.
5--If the lock does not come out easily, put the lock screws back in their respective holes and lightly tap each one alternatively until the lock comes out.
6--Remove the barrel bands.
7--Remove the barrel tang screw.
8--Carefully remove the barrel by lifting it slightly at the muzzle and pulling it forward until the breech plug tang clears its mortice, then lift it straight out of the stock barrel channel.

The important thing is to FULLY SUPPORT support the musket DURING EACH STEP.

Perhaps some of the experienced longrifle guys on the forum can provide some guidance for you.

Offline Mdlock

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Re: Help I found a mark
« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2020, 01:24:15 AM »
Sounds like it could hurt more than help. Any other suggestions? I would guess that this was converted to percussion. Isnt that most likely?