A Plea From An OLD Fool

[stikshooter]

Smokey.........I'd love too but i'm not a builder either and live in a small apartment. No place to build one.

A nice idea though.

Thanks

I built a Kibler SMR in 45 cal and I built mine in the (spare room) next to the kitchen and nope not a builder of fine long rifles but mine turned out absolutely fine . There"s a will there a way/Ed

[bob in the woods]

I know this is just my own opinion, but I would not spend the money on a Pedersoli or other import because the difference in locks and barrels vs American made is night and day. For the money you are looking at, I'm certain you can obtain a rifle with a swamped barrel and a decent flintlock.  A Kibler kit will get you where you want to be as well, and you'll have the satisfaction of putting it together.

The OP already has stated he is not a builder.

Did you read his postings, friend?

Yes, I read the post thoroughly, and , as I said, I'm certain that he will be successful in finding a suitable rifle .  I mentioned the Kibler kit as an aside, simply because I consider them as possibilities for those who would not otherwise believe they could build a gun. Just about anyone can build a Kibler gun if they take their time, and watch his instructional videos. 

[OldMtnMan]

In trying to keep an open mind I looked at the Kibler kits. I'm sure I could build one but they don't suit me. The Southern Mountain kit only goes up to a .45 cal. That's not legal in Colorado for deer. The Colonial comes in .50 and .54 but weighs 9lbs 10oz. I would have kept my GPR if I could still handle that weight. My spine would crack for sure with the long barrel and weight. I need a gun in the 7lb range.

Maybe this idea of a longrifle is indeed a foolish request from this broke up old man. I look out my window and stare at the 14,000 ft peaks and remember the days I ran through those mountains. Maybe those days will be just memories from now on.

[bob in the woods]

Here's another off the wall suggestion.  My hunting opportunities here in the woods usually offer shots of 35 yards or even closer. My smoothbore has been my go to gun for some time. Even out to 50 yards, a 20 bore would suffice. Light to carry, easy to handle, and packs sufficient wallop for any deer living.
Worth considering.

[smylee grouch]

Well Pete, if you can still sneak up on them a short barrel 20 ga. trade gun might do the trick. They would be light enough and 20 ga. would be big enough.

[577SXS]

OldMtnMan,

You should look at the English sporting rifle. Chambers has a kit and I built one a couple years ago, its really light weight. Its a really handy fun gun. Its too light for me to shoot well as I'm new to flintlock shooting. My gun has both 50 and 58 caliber barrels. Its spoken for but if the deal falls through I may see if I can help you out.

Sam

[OldMtnMan]

Yes, 50 yds has always been my range. Even when I had 20/20 vision. I'm a still hunter and love to sneak in close. We have lots of dark timber in my unit and it's where I hang out.

I've never considered a smoothbore but I will. Do they still use a patched ball?

[Bob McBride]

Do they still use a patched ball?

Sure. There抯 some question about patched balls being HC in Smoothbores but I think it was probably fairly common in the rifle era. Probably less so before rifles and their best practices were common knowledge. Lots of opinions on that. Patch away.

[iloco]

Daniel Boone loaded his smooth bore with buck shot and ball.  It was proably loaded both ways from its begining.  Bird gun, Rabbit gun, Deer gun all in one package.

[OldMtnMan]

I just watched a video by Mike shooting a smoothbore. He used a ball and put TOW under and over the ball. No patch. The ball almost fell down. The ramrod will last forever but will that loose load work for hunting? He used a .61 ball and 110gr of 2F. That seems like a pretty stout load. Do I need that for deer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=885&v=itHwpO6EVaw&feature=emb_logo

[Bob McBride]

I just watched a video by Mike shooting a smoothbore. He used a ball and put TOW under and over the ball. No patch. The ball almost fell down. The ramrod will last forever but will that loose load work for hunting? He used a .61 ball and 110gr of 2F. That seems like a pretty stout load. Do I need that for deer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=885&v=itHwpO6EVaw&feature=emb_logo

Mike has found larger charges and nearly bore diameter balls bring him more accuracy at 50y on his hunting Smoothbore guns. Hard to argue with. He抯 decided not to patch for HC reasons and that抯 how he makes it happen. The commonly used paper patching of a military cartridge is a small jump to using cloth, etc. IMO, but cloth had household value beyond patching and would have been hard to get from momma, especially for the lower classes. Hence natural patching/wadding. No, you don抰 need 110g for deer. 50g will fly right through. You抣l have to shoot it all and decide what works for you.

I don抰 think he uses tow much anymore. He uses homemade paper cards now I think. Finicky to load but works well.

[iloco]

Hornet or Wasp nest make good patching.  I use cloth patching for my smooth bore with round ball. 

[Bob McBride]

Hornet or Wasp nest make good patching.  I use cloth patching for my smooth bore with round ball.

Me too, though I do a lot of playing around with all sorts of stuff. I enjoy that sort of plinking.

[bob in the woods]

My friend has shot a lot of deer with 70 gr of FFg and a patched .600 ball in his 20 bore
He has arthritis in his shoulders and can't handle heavy recoil. 

[Smokey Plainsman]

A smoothy, loaded with a near-bore roundie, will clean Bambi抯 clock from 50 yards out.

I don抰 shoot a smoothy, but the groups some of these guys post at the half football field mark are staggering. They don抰 give up too much to rifle out past 50 yards.

[OldMtnMan]

I've always used a .50-.54 PRB and never needed a heavy load. I only used 80gr for elk.

A 20 bore is unknown to me and the reason for questions. Good to know I don't need 110 gr. Mike has a lot of natural padding I don't have.

[Dave Marsh]

I just watched a video by Mike shooting a smoothbore. He used a ball and put TOW under and over the ball. No patch. The ball almost fell down. The ramrod will last forever but will that loose load work for hunting? He used a .61 ball and 110gr of 2F. That seems like a pretty stout load. Do I need that for deer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=885&v=itHwpO6EVaw&feature=emb_logo

I use 80 grains of 1.5 FG Olde Eynsford in my smoothbore 20 gauge.  Mine is a Pecatonica version of an early fullstock fowler with no rear sight.   A .600 roundball with a .010 patch.  First time I tried it I was amazed at the accuracy at 25 and 50 yards.   Mine weighs 6 1/2 pounds with a 42" octagon to round barrel.  It is also jug choked.  That ball will knock down any deer that you sneak up on.   Smoothbore might be a good option for you as it doesn't hurt the shoulder or slap the cheek.    Good luck. 

Dave

[Smokey Plainsman]

I've always used a .50-.54 PRB and never needed a heavy load. I only used 80gr for elk.

A 20 bore is unknown to me and the reason for questions. Good to know I don't need 110 gr. Mike has a lot of natural padding I don't have.

I have some natural padding too but it抯 all on my beer gut LOLOL

[OldMtnMan]

Another Mike video. This one about the difference between patched and bare balls and 2F vs 3F. It did show me that the bare ball is easier on recoil which is good because it needs more powder to match the lower power patched ball. It also shows me the accuracy that can be expected but all guns and shooters are different.

[OldMtnMan]

Let me also ask you guys for an opinion. It's about the gun Dennis is offering me. I'm still thinking about it. It's a Dunlap/Getz kit Dennis built. It has a Rice 38" round bottom swamped barrel and Siler lock. We can't do much better than that.

I've asked this question to Dennis but haven't got an answer yet. Let me ask you guys too. For someone (me) that a GPR cracked his spine just shouldering the it. How would Dennis's gun feel compared to it? Everybody is different. One guy could be as strong as a bull and say it feels light. Another poor sap like me with a bad back will say it feels heavy. Dennis could be the bull, so i'd like other opinions please.

[snapper]

How much does the rifle weight?

Is it the weight that gets you or the configuration?

Fleener

[iloco]

Dennis is like you and me.  He has been around for a long time.  I would trust any thing he told me.  I like that rifle. That flat style butt stock will be easy on ones shoulder. I like a rifle with a patch box.  I carry my worm and njag in it.  I think the amount of powder one loads would have a big effect on the kick of the rifle.  I am one those guys who loads with out a starter. 

[OldMtnMan]

snapper..........Not so much the overall weight but that does come into it somewhat. It's what's hanging out front that gets my back. The GPR has a barrel that's only 32" but it thick and heavy like all the Hawken style guns. I was hoping a longrifle with a lighter construction would be better even though it's longer.

For those who didn't read me talking about my condition. I have fairly advanced Osteoporosis. It's not that i'm weak. It's that my muscle strength is stronger than my bone strength. It will feel like i'm not straining at all and the bones give out. I can't count how many times i've cracked my spine and ribs from just doing normal living. So, I have to always think not what I can do but what can my spine handle. Such as shouldering a gun.

edit..I'm still waiting for Dennis to tell me the gun weight. He must be busy. What would you guys guess it weighs?

[Dennis Glazener]

Our power has been out, back on now and putting generator away.

I will find scales and weigh. Does not feel muzzle heavy at all to me but not sure how it would feel to you.

Nothing like the Hawken rifles I have handled.

[snapper]

I realize that this might seem drastic, but you could aways have some of the barrel and stock cut down on Dennis' rifle to reduce the weight and what you have sticking out there.

Fleener