Author Topic: Lead vs Leather for flintlock jaw padding...  (Read 2449 times)

Offline stretchman

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Lead vs Leather for flintlock jaw padding...
« on: April 12, 2020, 03:20:23 AM »
I recently replaced the leather jaw pads in my flintlock it with a flattened piece of lead.  I know that some shooters say that lead adds to much weight to the hammer and can result in premature parts wear.  After fifty shots with the lead for the jaw padding, the mainspring and the stirrup broke.  Could the extra weight of the lead have lead to the breakage?  I have since weighed the lead used for the jaw pad and it weighs 90 grains.

Thanks
Todd

Offline Daryl

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Re: Lead vs Leather for flintlock jaw padding...
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2020, 03:39:37 AM »
Could be - could be the parts were ready to break regardless.
I have used very thin lead in the cock's jaws a number of times on different rifles and other
then increased sparks, I saw no other difference. 
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Karl Kunkel

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Re: Lead vs Leather for flintlock jaw padding...
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2020, 04:23:37 AM »
I believe Jim Chambers recommends against the use of lead for flint padding.
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Offline Jim Chambers

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Re: Lead vs Leather for flintlock jaw padding...
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2020, 04:32:22 AM »
Lead works great on a big military type lock, but lead transfers too much stress to the small neck part of the cock on sporting type locks.  I have seen several cock broken at the neck due to lead being used.  Leather acts as a "shock absorber" and is better suited to civilian locks.

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Re: Lead vs Leather for flintlock jaw padding...
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2020, 04:33:37 AM »
Leather is best, as it is not so easily upset by the repeated shock of firing.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Lead vs Leather for flintlock jaw padding...
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2020, 04:53:22 AM »
Tks Jim - kinda figured that, but wasn't sure, as the few times I tried it, with wall sheeting lead, which is very thin, it did nothing but increase the sparks.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Lead vs Leather for flintlock jaw padding...
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2020, 08:39:31 PM »
 An old flintlock in the local museum had a dark stiff “something” wrapped around the flint in the jaws. After some close examination, it turned out to be rawhide, that had obviously been wrapped around the flint when wet. I’ve never seen this, or heard anyone mention it. I have no idea how well it would work.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Daryl

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Re: Lead vs Leather for flintlock jaw padding...
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2020, 06:42:00 AM »
Ray hide wet would work just fine, although the moisture wouldn't be good long term, rust wise. When the rawhide dried, it would shrink and
the jaws would need tightening as it dried out.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 05:59:29 AM by Daryl »
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Lead vs Leather for flintlock jaw padding...
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2020, 12:10:36 AM »
I think regular 4-5 ounce leather works best.  Good grip.  Not heavy.  Easily replaceable. 

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Lead vs Leather for flintlock jaw padding...
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2020, 04:04:31 AM »
I've tried lead by smashing a round ball down pretty thin. It worked ok.

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Lead vs Leather for flintlock jaw padding...
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2020, 04:42:02 PM »
It's been a while since this topic got batted around by us cats.

Jim explained it nicely here though, and I don't recall the military/civilian or big lock/refined lock differentiation.  I have seen makers and vendors of locks recommend against lead, and some specifically stating that it would void any lock warranty.

Rawhide I don't recall coming up, but I'd want to "pre-clamp" that outside the lock to let most of the moisture dissipate and only bring it to the cock when nearly dry.  But I have used water to soften veg-tanned leather to for best conformation and I've scraped/split thicker leather to make it the thickness desired.

Also, some might "hang" on the idea of "more sparks" as Daryl noted, but that doesn't factor in increased lock time.  Sure you cannot detect it, but I'll bet Larry Pletcher's timing setup would detect a slower lock with PB in the jaws.  When you change the mass of the cock, and the throw and spring do not change, it surely takes some microseconds longer to get "up to speed" and complete the throw.

It might even be as big a difference as priming powders make, pure speculation, but there's likely a difference.  Probably be best to time that with a big-honkin' lock that is okay with Pb and simple see if it works faster with leather (unless you have lock-money to burn in the interest of science).  There's a project for someone with access to the right equipment.

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Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Lead vs Leather for flintlock jaw padding...
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2020, 04:52:27 PM »
Wade.....It might accelerate slower with the weight of lead but the momentum might scape through the frizzen faster.

Just guessing. When I used lead it was an emergency. I was hunting and didn't like the look of the leather. I took it off and it was shot and fell apart. Dumb on my part for not checking it before the hunt. So, I beat a round ball down thin on a rock. Trimmed it with my knife and I was back hunting.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Lead vs Leather for flintlock jaw padding...
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2020, 06:03:19 AM »
Yeah- that would work.

Military's around the world (I suspect) issued lead for holding the flints in their rifles and muskets.
The US certainly did, which is why Jim noted this for military locks.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline hanshi

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Re: Lead vs Leather for flintlock jaw padding...
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2020, 10:57:59 PM »
It just doesn't get any simpler or easier than using leather.  Way back I tried out lead and gave it a good go.  It offered no advantage I could see, plus the flint would loosen regularly.
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