Author Topic: .45?  (Read 7532 times)

Offline timmit

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Re: .45?
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2020, 03:59:10 PM »
I have a Kibler 45 SMR and really like it for trail walks and for hunting deer.  Took a deer with it this year and it went right down.  I also have a Kibler Colonial in 54.  Took a couple deer with it previously.  I like hunting with the SMR if I am going to do much walking because of the weight.  It balances well and is fast handling.  I like it so much, I ordered a kit in 36 cal. for small game.

Offline WadePatton

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Re: .45?
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2020, 05:01:44 PM »
SMR is an over-used and under-defined term (probably why it is used so much).

In Tennessee Rifles the most common calibers were mid-thirties to low forties (remember, there were no such standard calibers BITD). But there were also many smaller and some larger. In Tennessee originals there's always an exception somewhere, but mine own 54 is quite a bit "oversized" for that general type of gun.  I was headstrong and certain at that time and it worked out for me, but I wouldn't do it again. 45 would be much more appropriate-just as 42 or 38 might be.

As to Daryl's admonition about it being small, he is way up north where animals tend to be larger (heat conservation) but here in the South where animals are often smaller (heat dissipation). I'm guessing a fat doe up there might be 200# and that's a real good buck in my part of the hills. I've heard of deer much larger from the Northern Plains states.  The one doe I've seen shot with a 40 was killed decisively and quickly with a body shot (specified because I have another pal who takes nothing but head shots).

So where you hunt and what you hunt and how well you handle the stress of hunting and shot placement might be the best factors as to caliber selection. And please never consult ballistic or power or killing tables constructed by modern ballisticians. I used to bleed external ballistics tables, but (after much study) found them less relevant in the BP world. Roundballs simply kill better than paper can ever explain, provided they are put where the need to go.

I'd have zero problems hunting in the South with a 45, but I'd want more lead if I was in moose and bear country-as D is. Game laws notwithstanding. My state allows 36 for big game (which I think fits the notion of "hog rifle" just perfectly, but is likely has some other rationale/excuse behind it. I prefer the "hog rifle" notion).

Hog rifle: (as I interpret it) the family farm gun used to dispatch domestic hogs in hog-killing season and whatever other farm "business" and that also doubled as a hunting gun in a time when there was very little big game left around here. And folks didn't have a rack full of guns to choose from. Big game here is thicker now that ever because of modern agriculture (corn vs. acorns) and conservation efforts.  They were of modest caliber. 45 would have been a "big" hog gun.

Also there are dozens upon dozens of old threads discussing calibers if one cares to look. In those threads one can learn from many great shooters who no longer make smoke and others who also passed this way before.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2020, 07:05:52 PM by WadePatton »
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Offline Daryl

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Re: .45?
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2020, 08:09:53 PM »
.47 calibre (45bore) was a popular size ordered by the Western gun stores, from the gun builders 'back East', when barrels of said guns were usually 3 to 4 feet. some were even ordered straight rifled.
Daryl

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Smokey Plainsman

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Re: .45?
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2020, 08:52:05 PM »
Thanks, gang. I should add I have a .54 Hawken being built for me so would have that caliber covered.

Offline Mike from OK

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Re: .45?
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2020, 11:47:06 PM »
SMR is an over-used and under-defined term (probably why it is used so much).

In Tennessee Rifles the most common calibers were mid-thirties to low forties (remember, there were no such standard calibers BITD). But there were also many smaller and some larger. In Tennessee originals there's always an exception somewhere, but mine own 54 is quite a bit "oversized" for that general type of gun.  I was headstrong and certain at that time and it worked out for me, but I wouldn't do it again. 45 would be much more appropriate-just as 42 or 38 might be.

As to Daryl's admonition about it being small, he is way up north where animals tend to be larger (heat conservation) but here in the South where animals are often smaller (heat dissipation). I'm guessing a fat doe up there might be 200# and that's a real good buck in my part of the hills. I've heard of deer much larger from the Northern Plains states.  The one doe I've seen shot with a 40 was killed decisively and quickly with a body shot (specified because I have another pal who takes nothing but head shots).

So where you hunt and what you hunt and how well you handle the stress of hunting and shot placement might be the best factors as to caliber selection. And please never consult ballistic or power or killing tables constructed by modern ballisticians. I used to bleed external ballistics tables, but (after much study) found them less relevant in the BP world. Roundballs simply kill better than paper can ever explain, provided they are put where the need to go.

I'd have zero problems hunting in the South with a 45, but I'd want more lead if I was in moose and bear country-as D is. Game laws notwithstanding. My state allows 36 for big game (which I think fits the notion of "hog rifle" just perfectly, but is likely has some other rationale/excuse behind it. I prefer the "hog rifle" notion).

Hog rifle: (as I interpret it) the family farm gun used to dispatch domestic hogs in hog-killing season and whatever other farm "business" and that also doubled as a hunting gun in a time when there was very little big game left around here. And folks didn't have a rack full of guns to choose from. Big game here is thicker now that ever because of modern agriculture (corn vs. acorns) and conservation efforts.  They were of modest caliber. 45 would have been a "big" hog gun.

Also there are dozens upon dozens of old threads discussing calibers if one cares to look. In those threads one can learn from many great shooters who no longer make smoke and others who also passed this way before.

"Remember there were no such standard calibers BITD"

From what I understand you would commission a smith to build a gun with a bore sized by balls per pound. So the gun was built first with the bore being a close approximation to the requested size... And the ball mold was sized to the bore. I'm sure gunsmiths were pretty accurate but you still wound up being "in the neighborhood" when it came to bore size.

Or you bought a less expensive already made gun and got what was closest to preferred bore/ball size that was available on the rack.

Mike

Offline WadePatton

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Re: .45?
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2020, 12:22:34 AM »
Yes it was a function of forged iron barrels, not the drilled pipes we use today. Every gun came with a mould to match the bore and you cast balls if you wanted to have balls to shoot.  Shooting was a far more involved process than the "hobby" many know today, even in our ranks.

I just can't make up my mind between: 38, 47, or 52.   :D they can be had.
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: .45?
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2020, 12:56:00 AM »
47 or 52, Wade! Too under-represented! Iíve got a .37. It started as a .35 but needed a ton of freshing. One of those 11 pound hog rifles.
Andover, Vermont

Offline smokinbuck

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Re: .45?
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2020, 01:15:09 AM »
In Ohio the "legal" minimum for deer is .38 but I don't know of anyone that goes that small. I have used a .40 a few times but the shots were inside of 50 yards. I feel that .45 is the smallest caliber to make humane kills and the .50 is better yet especially if the distance gets to the 75-100 yard range. Legal is one thing, humane is another.
Mark

Offline Mike from OK

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Re: .45?
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2020, 01:55:59 AM »
In Ohio the "legal" minimum for deer is .38 but I don't know of anyone that goes that small. I have used a .40 a few times but the shots were inside of 50 yards. I feel that .45 is the smallest caliber to make humane kills and the .50 is better yet especially if the distance gets to the 75-100 yard range. Legal is one thing, humane is another.

I'd like to have a rifle bored in .38... Just because.

Mike

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: .45?
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2020, 02:35:11 AM »
FCI barrels will make a 38 cal.

Offline WadePatton

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Re: .45?
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2020, 03:37:09 AM »
FCI barrels will make a 38 cal.
and the others i noted. I have a 30 by Charlie.
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Smokey Plainsman

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Re: .45?
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2020, 03:39:45 AM »
A .38 will take the ball from a Navy Colt.

Offline WadePatton

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Re: .45?
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2020, 03:43:03 AM »
47 or 52, Wade! Too under-represented! Iíve got a .37. It started as a .35 but needed a ton of freshing. One of those 11 pound hog rifles.

After some thought it'd likely be 47, as 52 is too close to 54 and 38 is too close to 40 and I've got those covered. I don't have a 45, so 47 makes sense in splitting the span from 40-54 -just perfectly actually.  But it'll be a while yet.  ;)
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Offline smylee grouch

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Re: .45?
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2020, 04:57:56 AM »
I have an original living in my house that was a 38, a rusty 38 and I had it freshed out to 45 and have taken three deer with it just so I could say I got three deer with an old original but it,s a percussion gun so rests quietly alone by it,s self these days. It wants to move out but can,t come up with the ransom money.  ;D  :)

Offline walks with gun

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Re: .45?
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2020, 05:48:03 AM »
     I've taken a heck of a lot of small game with my Tennessee .45.  Usually load 25-30 grains of FFG under a round ball.  doesn't tear up grouse, squirrels or duck with proper head shots.  If not actually hunting it's slim enough to be a favorite carry gun and load it with my favorite target load of 47 grains of FFG.    I have never taken a deer with this gun, just feel more comfortable with my .54 for larger western deer.    When many people ask "is this gun big enough for deer" it really depends on where you live, in some areas a 90lb. Whitetail buck might be a trophy and other parts that same buck is a fawn.

Offline alacran

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Re: .45?
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2020, 03:48:15 PM »
In Ohio the "legal" minimum for deer is .38 but I don't know of anyone that goes that small. I have used a .40 a few times but the shots were inside of 50 yards. I feel that .45 is the smallest caliber to make humane kills and the .50 is better yet especially if the distance gets to the 75-100 yard range. Legal is one thing, humane is another.
A ball in the head a ball in the heart are quite humane, even with a .25 caliber. Everything is dependent on shot placement and the range capability of the caliber used.  Killed an elk one year that had its femur shattered. It was walking normal, I had stalked it for over an hour. When  I skinned it is when I noticed that there was a previous entry wound on the thigh. When I processed it I found what appeared to be a .54 cal Powerbelt bullet that deflected and lodged by the knee.  Humane kills are not dependent on caliber size.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline Daryl

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Re: .45?
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2020, 09:19:23 PM »
The most common sizes ordered by the Western gun shops, from the makers "back East", 'carried' 32 bore to 150 balls to the pound. Those calibres today would be called
.32 or .33 to .53 or .54.
Daryl

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Offline hanshi

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Re: .45?
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2020, 10:36:54 PM »
My home state of Georgia set the minimum deer caliber at .45, so that was that.  Here in Maine the .40 is allowed but I still prefer the .45.  I would very much like a Kibler SMR kit in .45.  And as Wade mentioned the term SMR is not very specific; but this also goes for most of the types of longrifles.  It's like the name "rock & roll which merges into country, folk, etc.  But SMR works pretty well for most.

I've taken deer with the .45, .50, .54 and .62 and can't really say one does better than the others.  Some of the most damaging hits I've made on deer were with a .45.  Fact is, hit 'em where they live and they'll go down.
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Offline Daryl

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Re: .45?
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2020, 01:52:39 AM »
Note, if using something smaller than .45 for regular trail walks and you are shooting with old !@#$% who wear haring protection and you are being scored by them, be
aware you will lose some hits that they don't hear. Just sayin'. ???
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline thelongrifle

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Re: .45?
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2020, 02:39:02 AM »
A 45 will serve you well. I have them in 32 thru 62 caliber. I shoot s 40 the most now days but have won matches and killed many game animals large and small with 40 and up. Here in Tennessee 36 is legal for deer. It seems small to me. Get what you like and with good shot placement you will be happy with the results.

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: .45?
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2020, 04:45:16 AM »
I love conversations about the attributes of one caliber over another. This always leads to me believing I need several special-purpose rifles in various calibers! Very few of us actually hunt big game enough to have a justifiable reason of one caliber over another but one friend of mine had exactly that.
He had a contract  in an area that had too many whitetail deer and killed more than one hundred of them. When he was done his go-to caliber was 58 which proved to be an even better killer than a 62. For me my favorite caliber has always been 54 which I have used successfully from ground squirrels to moose.
All that said I really want to try a caliber smaller than 40 which leads me to another special purpose rifle!
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 04:53:21 AM by Daniel Coats »
Dan

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Offline Daryl

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Re: .45?
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2020, 05:05:30 AM »
Well, just in case you don't know if you have enough guns.


Daryl

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Offline Mike from OK

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Re: .45?
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2020, 12:36:25 PM »
Well, just in case you don't know if you have enough guns.



The logic is sound.

Mike

Offline hanshi

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Re: .45?
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2020, 09:43:42 PM »
Yes it is; very sound.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline AZshot

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Re: .45?
« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2020, 01:42:21 AM »
I just got a .45 Southern Mountain Rifle, and I think the caliber will be perfect for what I do.  Back in the 70s when I got into BP it seemed the main choice was either .45 or .50.  I got the .50 Hawkin and loved it.  But I never hunted with it.  I have however spent a lot of my life shooting "too weak" or "obsolete" hunting calibers.  My deer hunts have been .30-06, as well as elk.  I have hunted elk with .30-40 Krag, as well ast .40-65 Winchester.  Honestly if you can shoot accurately I always kind of chuckle at the .33 Win Mag and 4000 fps Lazzeroni guns.  On Hog rifles, my mom's family were Low Country farmers in SC for hundreds of years.  The time we had a Pig Pickin my uncle brought a rifle out to kill the hog.  It was a .22.