which nipple to buy

[rudyc]

Hello,

I just purchased a W&C Scott double barrel percussion shotgun.

The nipples are both in need of replacement.  I believe I will need 1/4-28 for the replacements.  They both came out without a problem and the threads look fine.

My questions are  these: Whats the difference between the stainless & the Ampco models, and which ones should I order?

Thanks,

rudyc

[roundball]

Of the 2-3 different brands I've tried I found the 1/4" x 28 "Hot-Shot" nipples to be outstanding and I standardized on them.
I don't actually know what company make them...I think they first came out being marketed by Michael's of Oregon, and when they got out of the muzzleloading loine of business, many other firms started carrying them...usually selling them under their own label like T/C, Traditions, Remington, etc...

[T*O*F]

Nipples come in different profiles.  Some have longer or shorter tubes, same with the threaded area.  You should try to match the profile of the nipples that came out of the gun.  It is best that the nipple screws in so it's bolster is tight on the flattened portion of the breech.

[Roger B]

First, I would make sure that the nipple seats have not been enlarged & recut sometime in the modern life of the shotgun.  A previous owner/shooter may have had to do this if the original nipples were frozen.  If the nipples are oversize to fit recut seats, Track of the Wolf usually has oversize nipples in stock.  I was once highly enamoured with the Uncle Mikes hotshot nipples but have found that they are pretty soft & tend to flatten out more quickly than others.  Ampco nipples are made of a bronze alloy that tends to be pretty tough.  Find some that fit & enjoy the Scott.
Roger B.

[rudyc]

I don't think the threads have been messed with,  a standard T/C  1/4-28 nipple threads in and out just fine.  I'm just not sure if there are different length nipples and if so, which one will be correct.  Also, what are the differences between the stainless and the Ampco??  I'm thinking the Ampco ones are tougher?

rudyc

[SCLoyalist]

If you can screw in T/C nipples snugly, seat the shoulder of the nipple against the breech, and pop a cap, seems like that would tell you the tube is long enough.   Again, you would want to make sure the threads you're screwing into are still in good shape, but it sounds like you've already ascertained that.

The Track of the Wolf Catalog lists hot shot nipples,  'made of hardened stainless steel'  and 'reputed to give better ignition with Pyrodex'.   My experience with them was pretty short-lived.  Twenty odd years ago I put one in a T/C Seneca, and the second shot fragmented a cap where I had to dig a fragment out of the web of my hand.   I kinda lost interest in the 'Hot Shot Concept' at that time.

Ampco nipples claim to be more resistant to battering down or burnout than standard nipples.

I doubt it makes too much difference which you pick.  I'd probably buy T/C standard nipples, and if I experienced ignition problems or unacceptably short nipple life, try Ampcos the next time around.  Fortunately, nipples are pretty inexpensive.
 

[Dphariss]

Hello,

I just purchased a W&C Scott double barrel percussion shotgun.

The nipples are both in need of replacement.  I believe I will need 1/4-28 for the replacements.  They both came out without a problem and the threads look fine.

My questions are  these: Whats the difference between the stainless & the Ampco models, and which ones should I order?

Thanks,

rudyc

First is it safe to shoot???.

Use steel or stainless steel.  DO NOT use "hotshot" or other "vented" nipples, they are not safe since they allow venting at the breech. These were developed to allow cheap rifles with poorly designed locks to shoot heavy loads (IE maxi balls) without blowing the hammer to 1/2 cock or beyond. This is a pressure sign and the makers of the slugs did not want the buyers seeing pressure signs.

I gave up on the copper alloy nipples decades ago when I found they screwed in a little farther every time I removed and reinstalled. I had already had a nipple blow out by this time and had "trust issues".
In a shotgun steel or stainless will last for a very long time. Chances are the locks are good and will limit/prevent any leakage through the nipple.

Dan

[erdillonjr]

Ampco nipples are the way to go. ED

[Daryl]

I'd stick with solid steel nipples and not the hotshots, either.  The "W&C Scott" is a good quailty gun however check the fences as should be operational and as well, the hammers should be in good shape before firing.
 Fancy dodges liek the hotshots designed to 'fix' a non-existant problem aren't needed on quality firearms - rifle or shotgun.  In rifles, they also caused a loss in accuracy according to my testing in 3 different guns, presumably due to differing pressure 'release' at the breech. Inconsistant is the word I was looking for.

[Roger B]

I remember that now!  It seemed that the older the hotshots got, the more inconsistent they became.  I have used an internally coned nipple called the "spifire" that worked pretty well & stood up to use.
Now comes the next question.  Why will a vented nipple lead to inconsistent pressures when a touch hole (apparently) doesn't until it becomes really worn?
Roger B.

[Dphariss]

I remember that now!  It seemed that the older the hotshots got, the more inconsistent they became.  I have used an internally coned nipple called the "spifire" that worked pretty well & stood up to use.
Now comes the next question.  Why will a vented nipple lead to inconsistent pressures when a touch hole (apparently) doesn't until it becomes really worn?
Roger B.

The flintlock vent starts to lose accuracy as soon as it exceeds about 1/16" in diameter so it does not require a lot of erosion to effect FL accuracy.
Venting causing accuracy problems is why sealed ignitions came into use in percussion slug guns.
Dan

[rudyc]

The barrels are twist. With "London Fine Twist" engraved on the rib.

The bores are smooth with no pitting, I have gone over it with a bore light and a pick to try and detect any pits or indents, there are none.

A 12 jag and a patch goes down without any drag or catching.

The number 12 is stamped on the bottom of the barrels next to the proof marks.

The left hammer has an older welded repair.

One other question:

The bores mic 0.745 at the muzzle extending down about an inch. After that they mic 0.729 - 0.730 for as far down as I can get my inside mic, about 5" Did someone hone out the last inch of the barrel or was something like that done at the factory to aid in loading??







Thanks again,

rudyc

[Daryl]

Appears to need fairly short nipples. Factory nipples that are to long can be shortened as the small hole is at the bottom.
The relieved muzzles might be for loading or to allow some blowby to stop wads from running into the shot cloud.  .729/.730" is standard for 12 bore.
 

[roundball]

Yeah, those who attribute a problem to having used a Hot Shot, I suggest you don't use them any more and just send those leftover Hot Shot on over here to me
 

NOTE:
The hole near the top of the cone on a Hot Shot  "IS"  for consistency...by helping to regulate pressure from shot to shot...that's why it was designed that way.

PS:
SCL, reference the Seneca.....it takes a special size nipple...are you sure that was a Hot Shot way back then that you put into a Seneca?

[SCLoyalist]

NOTE:
The hole near the top of the cone on a Hot Shot  "IS"  for consistency...by helping to regulate pressure from shot to shot...that's why it was designed that way.

PS:
SCL, reference the Seneca.....it takes a special size nipple...are you sure that was a Hot Shot way back then that you put into a Seneca?

I'm as sure as I can be of a 25+ year old event.   I recall it as an Uncle Mike's product with a hole drilled cross wise below the cone.   I suppose I could be mis-remembering the rifle it was in, but it was having to dig the cap fragment out of my hand that soured me on Hot-Shots.

[Dphariss]

The barrels are twist. With "London Fine Twist" engraved on the rib.

The bores are smooth with no pitting, I have gone over it with a bore light and a pick to try and detect any pits or indents, there are none.

A 12 jag and a patch goes down without any drag or catching.

The number 12 is stamped on the bottom of the barrels next to the proof marks.

The left hammer has an older welded repair.

One other question:

The bores mic 0.745 at the muzzle extending down about an inch. After that they mic 0.729 - 0.730 for as far down as I can get my inside mic, about 5" Did someone hone out the last inch of the barrel or was something like that done at the factory to aid in loading??



Thanks again,

rudyc

It could be bored as in #2. It was a type of choke  used in ML guns and improved patterns.

Dan

[490roundball]

Rudy

What does the piece weigh?  A light game gun from a british maker is nice to carry. And the conformation has changed little in all those years.  My setters love the smell of black powder.

[rudyc]

Rick,

It weighs 7 1/4 #'s on a kitchen scale.  31 inch barrels.

A bit more than the 16ga hammer breech loaders I'm used to, but not too bad.  Looking forward to making lots of smoke real soon.

rudyc