Author Topic: Brass-barreled American fowler/musket at Schoharie Old Stone Fort (Read 10155 times)

rich pierce · « **on:** August 04, 2009, 01:21:51 AM »

I visited the Schoharie, NY, Old Stone Fort Museum last week while visiting family. They have one display of 1730-1770 guns that was very interesting to me. Among these is a brass-barreled musket of English styling and American stocking, apparently. Here are some photos. Sorry I did not get a full-length view. These are just snapshots through the glass. The gun is now percussion and has been converted to half-stock. I could not see the lock side. Interesting gun; very nice shell carving at the tang. It’s about 12 ga, I am guessing, probably 46-48” octagon to round barrel with a rear sight that is quite nice.

tallbear · « **Reply #1 on:** August 04, 2009, 02:09:51 AM »

Rich
Very cool

I will be up there this fall gotta check that out.Thanks alot for posting!!

Mitch

Don Getz · « **Reply #2 on:** August 04, 2009, 06:06:46 AM »

Wow, what a neat gun. I stopped by there many years ago, don't recall seeing anything like that...............Don

Ephraim · « **Reply #3 on:** August 04, 2009, 06:46:26 AM »

How common do you think brass or bronze barrel guns were? Were they made for sea service for use along the coast because of the salt air?
Ephraim

Collector · « **Reply #4 on:** August 04, 2009, 06:59:04 AM »

Earl Lanning asked that once. I've only seen one, back in the mid-90's. It was a musket, made in the US, styled after a Bess and the barrel had Dutch hallmarks. It was for sale in Long Island, NY together with a riflemans knife and a beautiful War of 1812 Commission for a NY Company. The claim was that they were found together in the wall of an old home, on the north shore, during renovations.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #5 on:** August 04, 2009, 05:29:54 PM »

Long Island gun I'll bet. Wood under rib?

rich pierce · « **Reply #6 on:** August 04, 2009, 05:30:24 PM »

Quote from: Don Getz on August 04, 2009, 06:06:46 AM

Wow, what a neat gun. I stopped by there many years ago, don't recall seeing anything like that...............Don

I need John to make me a barrel like that! Talked to him briefly at Dixon's, which is a whirlwind- put a bug in his ear for me. Naval bronze would be fine.

rich pierce · « **Reply #7 on:** August 04, 2009, 05:31:40 PM »

Quote from: Mike Brooks on August 04, 2009, 05:29:54 PM

Long Island gun I'll bet. Wood under rib?

yep, wood under-rib. I was thinking this was a modification after the gun was percussed. Think it might be originally halfstock? How would you date it?

Collector · « **Reply #8 on:** August 04, 2009, 07:48:24 PM »

Rich Pierce, The forearm looks, to me, to have just a bit of a swell at the rear pipe. What says the photographer?

rich pierce · « **Reply #9 on:** August 04, 2009, 08:31:32 PM »

I think so but it is subtle compared to a Bess. My wife Susan took a video of the gun, sweeping along it and I'll double check that tonight.

Collector · « **Reply #10 on:** August 05, 2009, 01:50:51 AM »

Mike, What makes you think it's a Long Island gun? Just curious...

Never thought of Long Island as being a 'gun making' center, so's to speak and I'm not sure that I'd recognize a Long Island gun if it was the only thing in an otherwise empty room, in a building, on Long Island!

rich pierce · « **Reply #11 on:** August 05, 2009, 07:30:14 AM »

I think many of the British style fowlers were made in the Long Island area which was also a great spot for waterfowling long ago.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #12 on:** August 05, 2009, 03:10:58 PM »

Quote from: G.Hansen on August 05, 2009, 01:50:51 AM

Mike, What makes you think it's a Long Island gun? Just curious... Never thought of Long Island as being a 'gun making' center, so's to speak and I'm not sure that I'd recognize a Long Island gun if it was the only thing in an otherwise empty room, in a building, on Long Island!

Check out Glenslade's book. Other than the brass barrel and 1/2 stock this is a dead ringer for a Long Island gun.

Collector · « **Reply #13 on:** August 05, 2009, 07:24:58 PM »

Mike, I'll definitely have to get that book. Rich, Interesting element, British style in NY. I'd pretty much accepted that the British style influence in firearms stocking was predominately a 'southern' states feature v. a 'northern' states feature. Not that a northern gunsmith wouldn't or couldn't do that style of work, as evidenced by the John Newcomer piece, formerly misidentified or attributed to 'Bullard,' just that it more of an anomaly than a recognized/regional design feature. Now, I REALLY need to get that book.

rich pierce · « **Reply #14 on:** August 05, 2009, 07:50:32 PM »

Apparently NYC was a place where English culture flourished from mid-18th century more than Germanic- the Dutch moved up the Hudson pretty early on. That book, Grinsdale, is an eye-popper. Nobody is making those British styled fowlers but they are terrific and would be a rich vein for a high-end builder to work.

mr. no gold · « **Reply #15 on:** August 05, 2009, 09:21:02 PM »

Is there a book on American smooths that I have overlooked, or are we talking about Tom Grinslade's recent landmark book?
Dick

rich pierce · « **Reply #16 on:** August 06, 2009, 01:14:13 AM »

Grinsdale, "British-styled fowlers" section. This one is plainer in some aspects and perhaps later than some he featured. I saw no sign of carving on the underside of the buttstock.

rich pierce · « **Reply #17 on:** June 19, 2022, 05:01:01 PM »

Yesterday I got to handle it. A couple more close-ups.

Otto · « **Reply #18 on:** June 19, 2022, 05:24:14 PM »

English influence pretty apparent. A nice old piece and who isn't impressed with a brass barrel?

jdm · « **Reply #19 on:** June 20, 2022, 01:36:41 AM »

I've seen two brass barreled rifles . Oddly enough,both were at the Princeton long rifle show . They were owned by two different people at the time, one was Vince Nolt. That rifle is pictured in Henry Kauffman's book " The Pennsylvania Kentucky Rifle' page 162. It also had a brass lock plate. It had a very artistic patch box with a name on the lid Ludwig Paul 1841. I think Vince wanted seven or eight thousand at the time. I was very interested at the time but lacking funds. Some one else bought it.

Telgan · « **Reply #20 on:** June 20, 2022, 02:20:31 PM »

Mornin Rich - Is there a full length photo of this gun? Sometimes it's easier for me to appreciate architecture if I can see the whole thing. Tom

smart dog · « **Reply #21 on:** June 20, 2022, 02:35:18 PM »

Hi Rich,
The brass hardware looks like typical Ketland export stuff from the 18th century. Did you see "Timothy Murphy's" double barreled rifle?

dave

rich pierce · « **Reply #22 on:** June 20, 2022, 03:19:46 PM »

Quote from: smart dog on June 20, 2022, 02:35:18 PM

Hi Rich,
The brass hardware looks like typical Ketland export stuff from the 18th century. Did you see "Timothy Murphy's" double barreled rifle?

dave

They were keen to show me the wender but I declined.

rich pierce · « **Reply #23 on:** June 20, 2022, 03:21:46 PM »

Quote from: Telgan on June 20, 2022, 02:20:31 PM

Mornin Rich - Is there a full length photo of this gun? Sometimes it's easier for me to appreciate architecture if I can see the whole thing. Tom

I’ll look. Might have something.
I’m thinking it was made a half stock when percussed. Nice job though.

45-110 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 21, 2022, 08:46:12 PM »

I would like to know how the barrel was fabricated? Did they cast a thick wall pipe, then ream? Seems the whole process would be technically difficult to say the least. Seems a lot of follow up lathe work would be needed too.
kw

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Author Topic: Brass-barreled American fowler/musket at Schoharie Old Stone Fort (Read 10155 times)

Ephraim