Gouge question

[LuVerne Schumann]

I'm new to Long Rifle building, but not to working with my hands with wood and metal. I have watched everything on YouTube I could put my mitts on, and watched carefully which tools talented people use.

Looking through my shop, I appear to have everything I need to build a rifle, except for a good quality gouge.

Which gouges does everyone use, and why?

Thanks!

[Bob McBride]

I use Pfeils for their quality. 4/10, 5/5, 6/5, and D7/6 a vast majority of the time for smaller inletting and a big one or two for mass removal. Lots of options though. I use old eBay castoffs, refurbished as well. English mostly. Doesn’t take many.

[LuVerne Schumann]

I see you are about 2 hours from me.

I'm building a Poor Boy Tennessee Rifle to start, so don't foresee much fancy carving. If you were in my position, which one Pfeil would you buy to start?

I'm also looking to make a spoon or two.

[Scota4570]

You can buy very nice chisels and gouges but they are expensive. 

I made most of them.  I used music wire, drill rod, old screw drivers  and clock spring.  I now find I like golf balls for handles on the gouges I use to stamp in with.  File handles work well too. I regrind existing chisels and gouges to make what I want.

 HF has a set that is useful.  Figure on resharpening and probably making a shallower cutting angle.   The ones you don't like can be reshaped and re heat treated.
https://www.harborfreight.com/wood-carving-set-11-pc-62673.html 

Sharpening is very important.  Get some stones or diamond laps you like.  Learn to sharpen.  For the final polish on an edge I use leather glued to a board charged with jewler's rouge. 

[Bob McBride]

I see you are about 2 hours from me.

I'm building a Poor Boy Tennessee Rifle to start, so don't foresee much fancy carving. If you were in my position, which one Pfeil would you buy to start?

I'm also looking to make a spoon or two.

Howdy neighbor. If I had to start with just one, which I did, it’d be a 6/5 Pfeil which is a medium curve 3/16” wide or so. A bit more curve than a 5/5 of the same width. Pfeil has a profile chart which will help you decide. There are much more experienced builders here who can dial you in a little closer or give you a better suggestion. I use them mainly for inletting curves on the panels. You’ll need a bigger one for spoons I would imagine.

[Mike Brooks]

I have been building these for forty years. I rarely use a gouge.

[Bob McBride]

I have been building these for forty years. I rarely use a gouge.

That’s because you could build one blindfolded. With your teeth. 

[P.W.Berkuta]

I don't focus on one particular brand but look for quality brand names. I first go for older used chisels then work my way towards the newer stuff. I do use gouges of different sizes when called for as they do have a use in building these weapons. As mentioned before keeping them SHARP is the key to good workmanship .

[kudu]

I'm not really Qualified to give a opinion on carving seein how I struggle with it My self.
Fact is I'm getting ready to post a question about it Myself.....

I have some Pfeil Tools Mostly
But this Place has good tools (Diefenbacher Tools) I been lookin at Dastra Chisels and Vee Tools etc.
Nice web page with Profiles and best of all " Prices Listed"!!

[smallpatch]

First of all, .... don't buy gouges just to buy gouges.  Also, don't buy SETS of gouges.  You'll end up using 1 of the 6, and the rest will lay in a drawer.
Figure out what you need, for the purpose intended, and buy the best you can afford.
Pfeil is good quality, and will last your lifetime. Keep them SHARP.

[jerrywh]

I have about every one you could think of but unless you do a lot of carving You would probably only need two or three small ones. In the beginning I made most of mine. In my opinion only experience can tell you which ones you will need. The top authority on this subject in my opinion is Ron Scott. He teaches a lot of gun making and carving classes. There is none better. 

[J. Talbert]

Unlike Mike, I use gouges a lot.  I hog out a lot of wood in inlets with shallow gouges (1/4 inch #2,#3, even #5) rather than chisels because the corners don't dig in and I have better control.  I also find gouges handy to cut across the grain in problem areas where the grain is running the wrong way and there's no room to cut with the grain.

Jeff

[Elnathan]

I've got a whole bunch of gouges, mostly acquired of ebay, including a really high-end Japanese gouge, a number of Henry Taylors, a Pfiel, and a number of vintage/antiques of English and American origin - Wetherbys, Addis, and several other brands - plus a couple Buck Brothers that were my first real carving tools. I acquired most of these fairly recently in a fairly short period of time in which I was consciously trying to acquire a good range of carving tools while I had funds to do so. I haven't built a gun since then, so I won't offer (much) advice on what sizes are most useful, but I have used some of them on lesser projects and I've been very impressed with the quality of my Pfiel - a 14mm #7, IIRC, which is a very handy size to have for all kinds of projects. I like Pfiel, and if I needed more gouges I'd probably look for more.

One bit of other advice: If you don't have it already, prioritize sharpening equipment over carving tools. You don't need a bunch of gouges to build a gun - if you only have one or two you'll find a way to get the job done with them - but they have to be sharp. It took me awhile to figure this out.

[Stophel]

I don't use too many gouges either.  I will sometimes use a fair size gouge (don't ask me the size) to hog off wood at the nose of the comb, or something, but it's not required.  I do use some smaller gouges for carving and cutting the ramrod channel and such.  I use some nice little "hand size" gouges I got from Woodcraft years ago.  They have a "Ramelson" brand on them now, and cost twice what I paid for them many moons ago.  Mostly I use the number 9 gouges.  Also good for the front end of the lock inlet.

Other than the little (( cuts, I don't generally stab in carving, so I don't require a huge number of gouges to match every sweep, every curve.

[Ron Scott]

I think it would be helpful, if you could indicated what aspect of stocking that you are considering using a gouge for. I using a different group for inletting than I do for raised carving.

[elkhorne]

Mr. Schumann,
Welcome to the gang! I think you will get a lot of helpful ideas and can decide on one that fits you best. like Ron said, you might explain a little of what you want to accomplish. In my opinion, anyone wanting to build a longrifle will need some basic tools. Files, rasps, a mallet, a hacksaw and a few others. As far as chisels and gouges, almost everyone I know that builds longrifles will say a must will be a good set of quality (not necessarily expensive) straight chisels from 1/4” to 1” and even 1/8” if possible. You can find good ones like old Stanley ones on EBay at a good price. I have a set of the ones with translucent yellow and black handles that have served me well and keep a remarkably sharp edge. Other good ones may also be available when you look. As far as for carving curves for inletting locks, sideplates and anything else with curved inlets, that is where your gouges come into play. I have been to several classes and the instructor usually sends out a list of a couple of hundred dollars worth of speciality chisels and gouges to purchase but my experience is one rarely uses over a few of those recommended. Then I went to a class last fall and the instructor did not recommend a long list of chisels and gouges to my surprise. We went to a big box store and bought a dirt cheap set of very small screw drivers and proceeded in class to sharpen and reshape them into a miniature set of straight chisels ranging from less than 1/16” to around 1/4”. We proceeded to carve a very nice pattern on a curved piece of curly maple and it was amazing. Not a single gouge was used for the project. In conclusion, my experience and use has made me a believer, like Bob McBride said, that a few smaller gouges will do most anything you want. I find the Pfeil intermediate gouges like nos. 3, 5, 7 in smaller sizes from 2-5 mm will do about everything you want to do. Hope this helps and gives you another perspective. Good luck.
elkhorne

[Bill Raby]

You don't need a full set of expensive gouges. But it sure is nice to have.

[LuVerne Schumann]

Thank you for the kind responses. I like how varied they are.

I have plenty of wood and metal working tools. I have the chisels, rasps and files I need.

But I assumed the best way to inlet curves is through the use of a gouge.

I need at least one large and medium sized gouge for other projects, so will take your advice in account before purchasing one for this gun.

Thanks

[LuVerne Schumann]

You don't need a full set of expensive gouges. But it sure is nice to have.

I've been watching your videos quite a bit while I wait for my gun parts to get here. Very informative.

[BJH]

For basic gun assembly I normally only need one gouge. That’s for the nose of a flint lock. If you get one choose a smaller radius than your locks nose. My first mentor taught me that most radius can be formed with a series of small straight cuts. Inside the lines of course. I heavily use 3/16 wide and a 1/4 wide home made flat chisels, for much of my inletting. Also some radius nosed flat chisels for outlining and pareing cuts. The radiused edge is used on a pushing down and rocking cut for outlining. You could easily get by with these to do almost all your assembly inletting. I use my home forged chisels more than anything else. BJH

[elkhorne]

LuVerne,
One other thing that might help you is to study the Golden Mean some and how a spiral is made to flow using it. The spiral incorporates a series of varying curves to construct the spiral. Like BJH said, and we used in our class a very small straight chisel can be walked around a curve inside your line to cut the curve. One added thing you can do is to bevel the edges, top and bottom, of that small straight chisel to approximate a fish eye shape. Some research on carving and the tutorial section of
ALR have some good photos of exactly what I am talking about. Good luck.
elkhorne

[LuVerne Schumann]

I will study this golden mean you speak of. Also will work on sharpening and practice on scrap until I am comfortable before hacking away on my maple stock.

[LuVerne Schumann]

I found this on YouTube, and will give it a try.

[jerrywh]

Chisels are sharpened according to the job for witch they are intended. Some need a heal some are no good with a heal. I always say take advice from the best experts in their field.  In my opinion Ron Scott and Wallace Gusler are the two best gun carvers in the USA. If there is any better I haven't seen them yet.