Hawken build advice needed

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Hawken rifles have a particular architecture that sets them completely apart from those built by their own contemporaries, although there was  some copying done even in those days.  Getting the shape right isn't hard, but you need to know what that shape is.  So study is required.

Many people have difficulty in the lock/breech area, inletting the long tang of the breech, getting the lock positioned correctly, and on and on.  If you pay very close attention to all of the fine details, you will turn out a credible rifle.  The very fine details are easy to miss.

[ScottH]

Might I suggest a visit to Don Stith's website regarding Hawken style plains rifles. (if you haven't already  )
I don't know if the prices for component kits are up to date but Don has a lot of knowledge on this particular rifle from actual original pieces he owns and has handled and measured.

[Deuce50]

Thanks for the tip Scott. I have not heard of don stith but I will check it out.

[Deuce50]

Well sometimes fate shines upon you favorably.  Out the blue, I just sold a sign that I have had listed for a while.  So with that free money I might as well buy all the parts at once as suggested!  I was planning on ordering the barrel, stock, breech, and butt plate tomorrow but now I have to do a lot more thinking to figure everything I will need out.  I will try to get a list of parts together and post it here to see what you all think.

I guess I should clarify, I'm not trying to build an exact replica.  Just a nice, well functioning hunting rifle in the hawken style.

That said, can any recommend a lock?  I was thinking an LR 900D, but I'm unsure.  I have an L&R rpl lock on my TC.  While I believe it functions well, the tiny pan on it sometimes bothers me.  Its can be difficult to get my brush or finger in there to wipe it out.  So any input would be appreciated.

[rich pierce]

A Hawken rifle is a challenging build just in the mechanics of building it.

Hooked breech is not easy to fit nicely nor inlet.
Long tang is a bear to inlet.
The lock must fit the underside of the snail on the breech very nicely.
Double set triggers have a very long bar and the guard bolted to it.
Halfstock with under rib attached.
Deeply curved steel buttplates are not easy to inlet.

Then getting a nice oval forestock and the rest of the architecture right is no piece of cake.

A 15/16” barrel will work in small caliber for their squirrel gun style.

Most people do not want to build a 9-11 pound authentic Hawken rifle and tote it around. But to me the early ones with 34-36” barrels look best.

[ScottH]

R.E. Davis lock #0211 is a decent lock,
I have one on a rifle that John Bergmann built for me.

[stoneke]

The challenges lie: 1. in the long hour glass tang. The long trigger bar with contoured shape, 3. Fitting (cutting) the lock plate to the bolster. And then there is the correct geometry of the stock. Believe those who tell you that a Hawken is not an easy build nor a first build.

[Deuce50]

Well it's a done deal now.  Just ordered everything but the sights.  I decided to only go with one wedge.  Any one think that will be a problem for a half stock?

[Bill Raby]

Have fun with it!

[Daryl]

Seems to me, my .58 Hawken of 1978 was about 12 pounds, 1 1/8" x 36" long.  I think Taylor's .62 S. Hawken is 11 1/2 pounds, seems to me.

[mikeyfirelock]

Deuce50.     Let me knowif you received my messages

[Hungry Horse]

 Not only are Hawken rifles deceivingly difficult, but nearly every part is Hawken specific which means expensive. My suggestion would be a short full stock plains rifle because you don’t need the trouble and expense of buying and installing an under rib. I also would not use a long hooked breech do to the expense and the degree of difficulty. If you are hunting with this gun you will need sling swivels for a sling. It’s much easier to make and install these if you aren’t trying to work around an expensive Hawken triggerguard, and underrib. And to be quite honest a “Hawkenish” rifle screams first build. Good luck.

 Hungry Horse

[Deuce50]

Well it's too late now.  Parts are already on the way!  Haha...  I think I can make it work.  It may not turn out looking much different than the TC flintlock I use now but at least the build will keep me busy and entertained while I wait for the world to get back to normal!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Deuce:  if you are using a Thompson/Centre rifle as you model, please do not call it a Hawkenish kind of rifle.  The T/C rifles no more resemble a Hawken rifle than a Lada resembles a Lincoln.  This may sound elitist or snobbish, but those of us who strive for historical accuracy in our builds have a lot of study and effort invested in this particular form of muzzle loading rifle, and to see a radical departure is difficult to deal with.  You can and should go ahead and use your parts to build a contemporary rifle that will surely suit your needs fine.  Just be sensitive as to what you call it.

[alacran]

Not only are Hawken rifles deceivingly difficult, but nearly every part is Hawken specific which means expensive. My suggestion would be a short full stock plains rifle because you don’t need the trouble and expense of buying and installing an under rib. I also would not use a long hooked breech do to the expense and the degree of difficulty. If you are hunting with this gun you will need sling swivels for a sling. It’s much easier to make and install these if you aren’t trying to work around an expensive Hawken triggerguard, and underrib. And to be quite honest a “Hawkenish” rifle screams first build. Good luck.

 Hungry Horse

There is no way no how that I would ever put sling swivels on a Hawken rifle. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The first year I hunted with my new Hawken, 36" tapered .62 cal barrel, very dense maple from New York, and weighing in at nearly 12 pounds, I swore I'd never do it again without a sling.  I'm sure my arms both stretched two inches...certainly felt that way anyway!  So I drilled a hole between the toe and the back of the trigger plate for a sling swivel, and mounted a swivel through the under-rib.  I do not use the sling for trail walks or line shoots, but it is a Godsend for carrying it while hunting.  Couldn't use the rifle for hunting without it.

[Hungry Horse]

 If you haven’t hunted country so hot, and rough, that you seriously considered leaving your rifle in the brush, and just building a new one, you really have little need for a sling. Jed Smith said the coastal mountains of California were some of the roughest, most inhospitable, terrain he had ever encountered. That’s where I have hunted my whole life. It eventually all comes down to, can I  carry a deer, and a rifle without a sling. And the short answer is no. I do agree that a non hunting Hawken should not have sling swivels, but we are barely talking about a Hawken here, and it was stated it is going to be a hunter, so all bets are off.

  Hungry Horse

[borderdogs]

Think of how small Kit Carson was and he handled his Hawken pretty well without a sling.........
Rob

[Joe S.]

I'm sure the horse carried the rifle on the long hauls.

[Daryl]

A nice button such as this makes for a very nice rear sling attachment.
The sling swivel though the rib, the front attachment.
Yes - I know, neither of these guns are Hawken rifles, however, they are 1/2 stock guns.

[alacran]

I hunt mostly in Arizona. Not known for cool weather and gentle terrain. I have hunted in the high country and have hunted in the Sonoran desert. I have hunted for elk, muledeer, Coues deer, and Javelina. From the Southern border of the grand Canyon National Park to the Huachuca and Chiricahua mountains. I have Carried a 1 inch 50 cal Hawken and a 54 and 58, All but the .58 weigh more than 10.5 lbs.
Never hunted with my one inch x 39 inch .45 Hawken because it weighed over 12 pounds.  Elk hunts average 7 miles a day. Sure the gun is heavy but I've never considered putting a sling on it. The Hawken's were made for men that rode horses. I now hunt elk with a light weight .54 Bucks County rifle. My Hawken is my back up.

Eigthh day of hunt, 1 and 1/2 miles from the truck. Four trips to pack it out. I was ten years younger.

[borderdogs]

Nice picture Alcran! I love those kinds of shots.
Rob

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

After my first year of hunting with my new rifle, I didn't hesitate to add the swivels and a substantial sling.  It made a tremendous difference in my enjoyment of the next hunt.

[Joe S.]

I say, if you want to put a sling on and it makes your hunt more enjoyable, easier go for it.If you wanna haul your shooting iron over your shoulder that's fine too.If you wanna bring your gun bearer "Friday" to haul it for you that's fine too.To each his own, sometimes we get to hung up on what others do or too historically correct,you did drive there in a pick up truck right?

[borderdogs]

Nice picture Taylor, I really love those kinds of pictures. You have details on that moose?
Rob