Author Topic: Hudson Valley fowler #1 at Schoharie Old Stone Fort  (Read 6851 times)

Offline rich pierce

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Hudson Valley fowler #1 at Schoharie Old Stone Fort
« on: August 04, 2009, 05:46:02 PM »
These are snapshots of Hudson Valley fowler #1 at the Schoharie, NY Old Stone Fort museum. It is huge, has a sheet brass buttplate, a spectacularly large and robust Germanic lock mal-fitted with a Charleville cock.  The sideplate is one of the most ornate pierced dragon sideplates Ive seen- you can see it in the mirror shots.  The carving and shaping surrounding the sideplate (look at the transition work around the breech) are special.  I estimate the barrel at 54-60.  Look how much barrel is "showing" on this gun.














St. Louis, Missouri

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Hudson Valley fowler #1 at Schoharie Old Stone Fort
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2009, 09:18:06 PM »
Rich-Thank you for posting the photos of what is a truly grand Hudson Valley Fowler, and an early one at that. There are not many of these left, and in truth, there probably weren't that many to begin with; so, this one is even more important.
It has all of the high art features that you could want on this type of gun. As you stated, the sideplate is classic and goes very well with the rest of the ornamentation on this gun. The maker chose good maple to stock his gun. Is that a Spanish proof mark on the top barrel flat?
It appears to be in 'as found' condition and it must have seen a period of military service since it has a musket top barrel band with military iron ramrod, and bayonet lug on top. Wonder if the barrel has been shortened? can't tell from the photographs; the really early ones had barrels so long that you could reach out and touch your target.
It would be nice if someone could get a grant to travel around the country to museums to gain access to arms of interest and to fully document such pieces. There must be hundreds of large and small public and private insitutions across the nation. With such a program underway, many hyper private, closet collectors might be inspired to participate, as well. What an addition all of that data would be to the ALR Library. Thanks again.
Dick

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Re: Hudson Valley fowler #1 at Schoharie Old Stone Fort
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2009, 02:01:25 AM »
mr. no gold, I think that the musket with the steel front band and ramrod, is a different piece altogether.  By the components, looks to be French, military and  ~1760 -1770.  This Hudson Valley fowler, as you note, is a grand piece and it deserves better attention than it is receiving, but at least it's been saved and not parted out or utterly destroyed.

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Hudson Valley fowler #1 at Schoharie Old Stone Fort
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2009, 09:26:26 PM »
By golly G.H.; you are right! For some reason, I just took the piece with the top band to be the fowler. Too bad because I rather liked the idea.
Rich, if you happen to have a photo of the muzzle of this fowler, would you please post it, too? There are some variations in the nose treatments of these Hudsons and it would be interesting to see what this one looks like.
Thanks again-Dick

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Re: Hudson Valley fowler #1 at Schoharie Old Stone Fort
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2009, 12:16:24 AM »
Dick, Sometimes I even surprise myself (by actually being able to find things that I've hidden, so well, that I can't remember where they are, amongst other things.)  My keen instincts tell me that the photographer is a shy, right-hand dominant Caucasian male, with salt and pepper facial hair, a blue shirt and that he prefers a  reddish toned camera.  I need to rest now... 

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Hudson Valley fowler #1 at Schoharie Old Stone Fort
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2009, 12:47:11 AM »
Go ahead and take that well earned rest, G.H. and let me add one more thing to your observation that the old gun is still here and mostly together. It is also on public view and that is worth a lot, too. Private collectors don't throw their doors open all that often to let folks in to see what is up on their walls. I like that aspect of museums very much.
Okay, say 'good night Dick' but, only if you are old enought to remember the Old Dick Martin TV show, whatever it was called (I just remember Goldie Hawn and the other cuties).

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Re: Hudson Valley fowler #1 at Schoharie Old Stone Fort
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2009, 01:44:51 AM »
"Rowan & Martin's Laugh In"   I go far enough back, that I can remember an old black gentleman that used to come around to homes in our area, with a mule drawn cart, to repair peoples pots and pans, for them.  There were upright poles on the corners of the cart and ropes draped between them from which hung various pots, pans and wares, on strings, that he had for sale also.  Days long gone...

Great points on the museum.  Good night Dick.  Gaylord

Offline debnal

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Re: Hudson Valley fowler #1 at Schoharie Old Stone Fort
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2009, 04:35:54 PM »
A very special fowler. I have one that has a very similar sideplate and buttplate. The sideplate looks like a demon that is walking on large hind legs.

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Re: Hudson Valley fowler #1 at Schoharie Old Stone Fort
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2009, 06:46:21 PM »
debnal,  Welcome to the board.  I think I speak for many of us who would just love to see photos of the piece in your collection.  So, how about some photos in a new thread?  ;D

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Hudson Valley fowler #1 at Schoharie Old Stone Fort
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2009, 06:55:23 PM »
A very special fowler. I have one that has a very similar sideplate and buttplate. The sideplate looks like a demon that is walking on large hind legs.

Yes, please send pictures of the sidepale as I'd sure like to replicate somehting like that for the HVF build I have planned.  This one has really captured my inagination.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline debnal

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Re: Hudson Valley fowler #1 at Schoharie Old Stone Fort
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2009, 10:26:58 PM »
I don't know how to put pictures on this thread but if you email me at debnal@aol.com I'd be happy to send them. My HVF has a round, flared 61 inch barrel. It is stocked in curly maple and has a large bulbous projection at the heel of the buttplate. What makes it just a little different is the prounounced drop to the stock. From Tom Grinslade's book I would date it in the 7140-1750 period.