What was special about a Bill Large barrel?

[Leatherbark]

I see the barrels of Mr. Large praised occasionally here.  A friend of mine purchased one in 50 caliber from an estate sale recently.  It has a Hawken type tang with a snail type breech.  He had never heard of this barrel and I told him they are highly sought after. Is there anything special I should know?  I understand Mr. Large passed away years ago. 

Thank you,

Bob

[hornturner]

I have had several Bill Large barrels and they all have shot very well.  He was legendary for his barrel making and his personality.  He was also one of the charter members of the NMLRA.  Bill large passed away in 1985 at age 78.  Anytime you can get your hands on one of his barrels today it is "special".

[rich pierce]

Recently I bought a Hawken style rifle made in 1967 with an as new Bill Large .45 barrel.  It loads beautifully.  Smooth. 

Original barrels from the mid to late percussion rifles have narrow lands. I’ve been freshing the rifling on some of these lately. The grooves are often only 0.075” wide in a .36 to .40 barrel from back in the day. Narrow grooves are easier to cut with a conventional, human-powered rifling bench. When the NMLRA was starting up a lot of the rifles being shot had original barrels.

Bill Large barrels I’ve seen have grooves almost as wide as the lands. Not sure if that was a feature that sold Bill Large barrels because that made loading easier or not. At that time his barrels were used by many record holders.

[smylee grouch]

Over the years I have had three of Bill,s barrels and mine had wide cuts and narrow lands. All of mine were choked and I was told he choked them when he lapped them but I,m not 100% sure on that.

[rich pierce]

I wonder if the ratio of land and groove width varied with caliber on Bill Large barrels. The narrowest lands I’ve seen are on my .45 GRRW barrel.

[smylee grouch]

Yes GRRW barrels had very narrow lands and Bill Large sold them a rifling machine and trained them on how to make them.

[Hungry Horse]

 I think Bill’s barrels were a study in muzzleloading barrel evolution. He was constantly studying fine barrels not only from the past, but from the present as well. The best barrel I ever shot was one of Bill Larges Forsyth barrels in 54 caliber. The rifling in this barrel had narrow lands, and wide grooves, and a 1 in 66” rate of twist. The inside of every barrel I ever saw with Bill’s name on it was flawless.

  Hungry Horse

[Justin Urbantas]

Do the Large barrels shoot any better than a Rice, Green Mountain, Colerain etc?

[Dennis Glazener]

Do the Large barrels shoot any better than a Rice, Green Mountain, Colerain etc?

Going to upset many but no, mine didn't, it shot very good but no better or worse than the Rice, Green Mountain barrels I have owned. I haven't shot but one or two Colerain and ten only 2 or 3 shots to make sure sights were close to POA.
Dennis

[elk killer]

I have 3 Large barrels in .54     They are ok barrels, but they don’t shoot any better than a Rice, the 4 Green River barrels i have all shoot about the same,,if you didn’t know who made the barrels, one shoots about as good as another

[Mike Brooks]

Do the Large barrels shoot any better than a Rice, Green Mountain, Colerain etc?

I believe most shooters aren't skilled enough to notice a difference.

[rich pierce]

Paul Griffith’s spidermatic barrels are in a different class than current mass produced offerings and hold many chunk gun records.  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=26987.0

Most shooters find a couple guns they shout really well then trust that barrel maker as among the best.

[Daniel Coats]

To me it's all about the feeling you get when shooting well with a Large or GRRW barrel. "Do married people live longer? No, it just seems longer." 

[Clowdis]

Bill Large earned his reputation by making high quality barrels when no-one else was, except maybe Douglas. That's about all there was in the 50's, and 60's. You could get straight octagon barrels from Numerich that were spotty quality. Then I remember Paris making beautiful swamped barrels and I think they later became Getz.

[J. Talbert]

IMHO what was special about Bill Large barrels was simply Bill Large himself.

Jeff

[jerrywh]

The first Long rifle I ever built had a Bill Large barrel.  That was 1961.  I built the whole rifle without knowing what caliber it was.  When it came time to shoot it I called him and asked him what cal. it was. He replied " I don't know, what ever it came out".  So I slugged the barrel and it turned out to be a .441.   I couldn't find a mold for it so I made a cherry and cut a mold for it. I still have that cherry to this day.

[little joe]

IMHO what was special about Bill Large barrels was simply Bill Large himself.

Jeff,

They were good shooters but the above is very true.

[WadePatton]

Paul Griffith’s spidermatic barrels are in a different class than current mass produced offerings and hold many chunk gun records.  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=26987.0

Most shooters find a couple guns they shout really well then trust that barrel maker as among the best.

How does one find Mr. Griffith? I find no relevant search results. Is he yet with us?

[rich pierce]

Paul Griffith’s spidermatic barrels are in a different class than current mass produced offerings and hold many chunk gun records.  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=26987.0

Most shooters find a couple guns they shout really well then trust that barrel maker as among the best.

How does one find Mr. Griffith? I find no relevant search results. Is he yet with us?

I’ll ask the over the log shooters I know. A friend just built a rifle with one of the spidermatic barrels but I don’t know how long he had it.

[Blacksmoke]

In the early 1980's I talked with old Bill Large many times over the phone when I was starting to do my own rifling.  What set Bill Large barrels apart from other barrel makers was his attention to the bore.  He did lap his bores but that was only to remove the burrs cast up from rifling.  His main difference from others was his tapered and choked bores before he started to add rifling.  Some folks would cut the muzzle off of a Bill Large barrel to shorten it for the type of gun they were building not realizing that they had just ruined one of his barrels!  The last several inches of any barrel is the most important!   Hugh Toenjes

[Daryl]

In the late 70's, I had a .58 Hawken built by Taylor, with a Bill Large 1 1/8" straight octagonal barrel. Seems to me, it had a 60" twist rate. I don't remember the groove,vs. land
width, but do recall quite vividly that to shoot 100yards (most of my shooting was at that range in those days), it required 140gr. of 2f GOEX to make it's best accuracy with  denim
 patched .575's. 1 1/2" for 5 shots was typical.  I even shot it with conicals, as I had 3 Lyman moulds, the #577611 which was their thick skirt 560gr., a #574312 OS which I thickened
up the skirts of and cast 480gr. as well as the #57730 with thickened and shortened skirts, cast 675gr. I used those with powder charges up to 160gr. 2F GOEX and got 1,325fps with
the heavy one. These shot almost as well as the round balls, to the 100yard range, but that curved butt plate did a number on my young shoulder. Like a fool, I sold that wonderfully
accurate rifle to a fellow in Terrace, B.C.  With less than 140gr. of the then 2F GOEX, it shot 9" and larger at 100yards, but with 140gr., it was a 1 1/2" plinker. Amazingly accurate barrel.

[okieboy]

 Paul Griffith died in January 2014. He was an exceptional chunk shooter. His gun went to Gary Test who set a record at the York of 2.44" for a 10 shot string. Paul's barrel making equipment went to Neil Eddington, who is also an exceptional chunk shooter. I got a barrel from Neil in 2015 or 2016 that I haven't stocked up yet. I am not sure if he is taking orders or not.

[hornturner]

I have a percussion chunk gun with a 51-1/2" Bill Large barrel.  It has a hook breech with snail and is .50 caliber.  The barrel was made for and rifle built by T.K. Dawson.  I do not know the full history of this rifle, but after Tom Dawson had it went to Andy Baker, then to Bill Burrt.  In his hands it won at Allen Coon's match, won the first of the revived Alvin York shoots in Pall Mall, TN and won once at the PA Championship Chunk Match.  It has subsequently won four more PA Championships.  This rifle really shoots well.  The barrel came with the actual cutters used to rifle it so if it ever needed freshening one could do it with the original cutters.

[WadePatton]

Paul Griffith died in January 2014. He was an exceptional chunk shooter. His gun went to Gary Test who set a record at the York of 2.44" for a 10 shot string. Paul's barrel making equipment went to Neil Eddington, who is also an exceptional chunk shooter. I got a barrel from Neil in 2015 or 2016 that I haven't stocked up yet. I am not sure if he is taking orders or not.

Thanks.

[bama]

I have an 52 cal heavy bench rifle that has a 2" straight Oct barrel Bill Large barrel with the 4 J's stamped on it. It will shoot as good a group as any barrel I have ever shot. I have shot a few 50's with it on the bench line at Friendship. This gun was probably built in the 70's, it has a Webb Terry action and a false muzzle and weighs about 40 lbs. I don't shoot bench anymore but it sure was fun while I was.

Here is a picture of a 50 I shot with the Bill Large barreled bench rifle.