Author Topic: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?  (Read 8530 times)

Offline 44-henry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1126
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2020, 01:14:14 AM »
I can tell you that I would like to own a Bill Large barrel and it would be special to me just because of who he was. Perhaps it wouldn't shoot any better than a modern barrel, but he was one of the early pioneers responsible for what we now collectively share an interest in. Years back I came across a Hacker Martin rifle at a local gunshow. I remember studying it and thinking at the time that it was not overly well done, perhaps even a bit crude. After putting it down I found myself going back to the table at least a couple more times, something was clearly bringing me back. I remember that night reading the account of Hacker Martin in my well worn copy of Foxfire, the next morning, after a discussion with my wife about the finances, I went back to the show hoping to purchase it. Unfortunately somebody had already beat me to it. I have always regretted that.

There is no doubt we have advantages in this field that people like Bill Large and Hacker Martin never had available to them. Our suppliers like Jim Chambers, Jim Kibler, and many others provide products that are at least as good and more often better than anything that was available in the past with a far wider variety and better historical accuracy to boot. Knowledge is much more readily available than what they had access to in the past. That being said, it doesn't stop me from looking at those past craftsman with respect and gratitude for what they were able to start. For me the works of Bill Large, Hacker Martin, Bob Roller, and many others will always be special.

Offline Leatherbark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 376
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2020, 02:27:35 AM »
Thanks for all the responses.  This barrel is stamped "W.M. LARGE for FRAZER".  If Frazer is here that would be cool.

Bob

Offline xx54

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2020, 04:25:51 PM »
Reading this post I looked through some of my barrels and was checking the rifling. Over the years I had a weakness for buying most of the good old barrels I found that was for sale. I managed to purchase 7 Bill Large barrels, several Douglas and a few Paris barrels. I was looking at a couple of my Bill Large barrels after reading this post. The 58 caliber I looked at this morning has 8 very wide grooves and narrow lands. It is one that I recently built and is still in the white. Some are unusual; one being 42" with a 373 bore and 1 in 54 1/2 twist which has very deep rifling and narrow grooves and narrow lands as near as I can tell. I was thinking 1 only had 7 lands and grooves. I didn't dig them out to check. Always enjoy reading these posts on barrels from the past. Some of my barrels are swamped; some are straight taper and few are straight. I always have been looking for an H&H swamped or straight tapered barrel. I have not been able to find one of those; maybe some day.

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2020, 01:28:07 AM »
Getz choke bored their barrels too.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Notchy Bob

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2020, 05:40:38 PM »
I was browsing an auction site a while back and found a listing for a rifle with a Large "JJJJ" barrel, for (I think) about $450.00.  This piqued my interest.  I took a closer look, and thought it might have a Bob Roller lock and triggers.  I saved a picture and sent it to Bob, who was unable to say for sure but indicated the lock and triggers could very well be his work.



Unfortunately, this was the only image I saved.  It was a half-stock that looked like a rifle that had been built with best-quality components, with nice architecture, but had suffered some abuse and unprofessional repair (note the broken triggerguard as well as the sloppy wrist repair).  It had a lot of character, though, and I decided to get it.  I called the seller (in Arizona) to make the purchase, but somebody else had bought it about half an hour before I made the call.  Dang...

It probably would have been worth the price for the barrel alone.

Notchy Bob
"Should have kept the old ways just as much as I could, and the tradition that guarded us.  Should have rode horses.  Kept dogs."

from The Antelope Wife

Offline wapiti22

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 168
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2020, 03:43:26 AM »
I recently acquired a Large barrel.  It's a 1 inch, 1:48 twist in 54 cal. Want to use for a Half-stock Hawken build. It's marked  W.M. LARGE with JJJJ underneath and a single L. underneath that.  Has a slight taper measuring 1.02 at the breech and .96 at the muzzle.

Can I assume that the muzzle is "coned"?

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19542
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2020, 04:28:43 AM »
Not coned. His barrels typically had a mildly chamfered muzzle. Some may have some choke in that it may be tighter at the muzzle and once short started, will load very easily.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9694
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2020, 02:30:06 AM »
Thanks for all the responses.  This barrel is stamped "W.M. LARGE for FRAZER".  If Frazer is here that would be cool.

Bob

I think it was Claude Frazer who lived near Milton WV years ago.Bill was notorious for putting
unwanted messages on his barrels but I don't recall any ever being returned because of them.
Bill was unique and I am very glad we became close friends and a lot of what I learned from him
has served us well over a time frame that began in 1953 and ended in 1985.Like so many of us.
there was only ONE of him.
Bob Roller

Offline Leatherbark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 376
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2020, 02:29:07 AM »
Mr. Frazer never got to use this barrel.  It is breeched but no sight dovetails have been cut.  The crown of the barrel is concaved really neat.

Bob

Offline albert

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 341
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2020, 06:17:56 AM »
I have just acquired several  new old stock muzzleloader barrels ,  and had a couple of Bill Large bbls. in the group what is interesting is his stamp on one of them , has his normal arch style,  and under that is 50- 203 , doesn't have the jjjj , the dash between the numbers is a # 1 horizontally.  I  have several of his bbls. and this one is the only one I've seen stamped that way   it  has "Missouri Hawken " written with a marker on it   it is .36 cal with a solid patented breech  , and is breech is made like a .50 cal. barrel I  bought from Bill , the .50 is one of four I  bought from him , this was around 1981, or 82 .
j albert miles

Offline Leatherbark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 376
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2020, 01:25:56 AM »
I noticed this William Large barrel has maybe 8 groove rifling?  Maybe 6 didn't count but the grooves are all across from each other as are the lands unlike the odd groove rifling with a land opposite a groove.  Does this type of rifling mean 2 opposing grooves were cut at once?

Bob

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9694
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2020, 01:50:03 AM »
I noticed this William Large barrel has maybe 8 groove rifling?  Maybe 6 didn't count but the grooves are all across from each other as are the lands unlike the odd groove rifling with a land opposite a groove.  Does this type of rifling mean 2 opposing grooves were cut at once?

Bob

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9694
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2020, 01:54:07 AM »
The grooves were always cut ONE at a time whether or not they were
7 or 8 grooves.
Bob Roller

Offline rsherman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2020, 03:35:30 AM »
I bought a 1"x 50" .45 Bill  Large barrel marked old maid's dream
From ron boron at the york shoot many years ago. I have a
Beautiful piece of curly sugar maple i bought from ken Thompson also many years ago. Last year afriend of mine found me a Bob Roller flintlock and set triggers. I plan on inserting myself among these classics by forging up some iron mounts and building a southern rifle in the style of the Bean's or Bull.

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9694
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2020, 03:51:44 AM »
I bought a 1"x 50" .45 Bill  Large barrel marked old maid's dream
From ron boron at the york shoot many years ago. I have a
Beautiful piece of curly sugar maple i bought from ken Thompson also many years ago. Last year afriend of mine found me a Bob Roller flintlock and set triggers. I plan on inserting myself among these classics by forging up some iron mounts and building a southern rifle in the style of the Bean's or Bull.

Keep us posted on the build if possible.
Bob Roller

Offline rsherman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2020, 04:05:27 AM »
I bought a 1"x 50" .45 Bill  Large barrel marked old maid's dream
From ron boron at the york shoot many years ago. I have a
Beautiful piece of curly sugar maple i bought from ken Thompson also many years ago. Last year afriend of mine found me a Bob Roller flintlock and set triggers. I plan on inserting myself among these classics by forging up some iron mounts and building a southern rifle in the style of the Bean's or Bull.

Keep us posted on the build if possible.
Bob Roller
i was gifted a set of old wrought iron wagon wheel hard ware that was dug up in the seventies down at the point in Pittsburgh., Pa. When they were building the fountain there. Was thinking of using it for making the mounts.

Offline Bob Roller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9694
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2020, 05:43:29 PM »
Paul Griffith’s spidermatic barrels are in a different class than current mass produced offerings and hold many chunk gun records.  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=26987.0

Most shooters find a couple guns they shout really well then trust that barrel maker as among the best.

How does one find Mr. Griffith? I find no relevant search results. Is he yet with us?

I’ll ask the over the log shooters I know. A friend just built a rifle with one of the spidermatic barrels but I don’t know how long he had it.
WHAT is a SPIDERMATIC barrel?Sounds like a car part tp me.
Bob Roller

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19542
Re: What was special about a Bill Large barrel?
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2020, 09:15:49 PM »
A spidermatic barrel is one made by Paul Griffith. In chunk gun shooting matches an X is the desired place the ball will land. When shot deaf center it resembles a bug. The body is the hole from the ball. The x looks like kegs. Hence “spider”.
Andover, Vermont