Front lock bolt/ RR

[StevenV]

From top of RR channel to edge of lock plate is .090”. Web at this location is .100”. Great notch the bottom of the barrel and done. Problem is can’t go higher no lock plate to accept a 6/32 bolt (.135”). Okay go down well that is the ramrod channel. Am I missing something as to a another solution . I came up with 3: reduce length of ramrod by 2” and lower front bolt, further down into lock plate to accept threads;lower RR channel from inside barrel channel, gouge it deeper (I have room); or the last idea , lock gets only one bolt. I really only am accepting of the first option and gun travels with longer cleaning jag. Any takers on another solution?? Also I had to reduce the width of the main spring because RR channel and main spring in same area. That was easy and worked well. It’s the front lock bolt issue that has me looking for a solution. Steve

[smylee grouch]

Your picture is confusing me, where is the top of the bolster in relationship to the side flat?  It looks like its at the bottom of the side flat, should be at the center of the side flat

[rich pierce]

That lock is inletted quite low. You really cannot have a front lock bolt. You could put in a dummy one or use a hook to secure the front of the lock.

I normally use the web to figure out where the nose of the lock belongs.

[StevenV]

I see what you mean the pic can be misleading. The top of the pan is just below the center of the side flat . Flat measures .370 , top of pan is .240 from top of flat , that leaves .130 below. So I am .055" below the barrel side flat center line.  Steve

[rich pierce]

Just have to ask if for sure the web is where the 2 parallel lines are. If so the nose is high. Maybe you did this to center the tail on your wrist. But there’s nowhere for a front lock bolt.

[J. Talbert]

You say you have room to lower the bottom of the RR hole.  You could do that and also taper the end of your RR terminating in a long skinny ferrule to accept threaded jag.  That could get the last few inches of the RR down to about 1/4 inch diameter.
Those two things combined may give you the clearance for a front lock bolt.
There is actually a way to lower the bottom of the RR hole by scraping the bottom of the hole from the inside.
Dan Phariss posted a scraper some time back which you might be able to find in the archives.  I have used this method to move the bottom of a rr hole that came out a little higher than desired.  I can post a picture of the scraper if you can't find Dan's post.

Jeff

[StevenV]

Yes Rich that is the web and it got thinner as it goes to the breech.I start with .140 web at the muzzle and I kept it to .100 at the front lock bolt. Got to love drilling ramrod holes. This is also  a 5/16” ramrod which lends itself to wander. Still not giving up I believe if I use a 6*32 bolt I could install it 1/2 of it will be in the channel. I could notch the bolt leaving .080” of a notched bolt at this spot. That should hold where is it going to go. I could also stay with a 2” short ramrod, don’t you like that idea?? Steve Thanks for the input Rich, not sure I’ll be seeing you at Dixons’s this year. Spoke with Greg and Brenda Sunday and they told me the cut of date to make a decision would be June 15th.  Steve

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Unless you move the rod hole down you will not be able to install a front screw for the lock.  that in sitself is not an issue.  As has been suggested, you can put in a dummy screw head so you can use a two screw side plate, and use a hook in the lock inlet for the front lock plate attachment.
If it were my problem, I'd use a scraper and lower the rod hole.  I used Dan's method and made a scraper, and it doesn't take long to move a lot of wood.  I used a tow worm to extract the scrapings from the hole as I work.

[rich pierce]

I’ve used that scraper technique to move a hole some and it’s more efficient than I expected by far. One issue with that method is the rammer may want to smack straight into the front lock bolt even with room below.

A drastic, somewhat distasteful, but highly effective save is to chisel or rout out the bottom flat barrel inlet right through to the ramrod hole from the entry thimble to the breech. Then deepen the ramrod “hole” gradually from the thimble to the breech.  When you can pass the ramrod through an$ it would go below the lock bolt you are done.

Then cut a pice of stock wood with a half round groove on the bottom and glue it in on top of a stainless loading rod in the hole, or the blunt end of your drill. Clean it up and you are good to go. 

[smallpatch]

Ok, from what I see, it's a lay out issue, and it's too late to fix that.
The easiest fix is a fake screw in the front of the lock, and a hook to hold the front into the lock inlet.
To me, even if you taper the rod channel, the rod will still wantq too stay straight, and hit the front bolt.

[Stophel]

That lock is inlet SO low, I can't imagine that the bottom of the pan trough isn't lower than the side flat of the barrel.

[StevenV]

Thank you to all who gave input. Leaning towards Rich Pierce solution. Go thru barrel channel ,deepen channel, glue piece back with drilled half side for the top of the channel. Still have not given up being able to sneak a 6/32 bolt and notch out the bolt part that is in the ramrod channel. Need to sleep on it, gun is going well so want to finish strong. I guess I take the blame for trying to be to cute with thinness underneath lock and wanting foreshock “ sleak” thin and below 1/2 of the side flat. I think we are all in agreement I accomplished that.I have been noticing with the recent guns I have built that the “ thinner” I want the finished stock the less room for error.  Thanks again.  Steve

[smylee grouch]

There is little metal left over if you notch a #6 x 32 bolt. Just sayin. With out a real close look I think Rich,s idea might be the way to go. Good luck on it.

[flinchrocket]

Before you start you need to determine where you want to end up by putting some lines on the side of your stock. Bottom of ramrod hole, top of ramrod hole, location of web, finish line for bottom of stock and location of lock bolt.

[Justin Urbantas]

Another option is to install the bolt as high as you are comfortable in the plate, then get a length of 5/16" steel, long enough to reach past the lock bolt from the muzzle end.  Then you grind the end into a pointy bullet shape. You then heat it to red hot, and push it down the rr hole. The bolt will push the rod down, and it will burn clearance below it.  Do it a couple times. That, and a little bit of taper to the rod, and you should be good.

[rich pierce]

So many ways to fix things. Regarding making the ramrod run under the front lock bolt once you’ve deepened the ramrod hole: a way I’ve seen SOMEBODY use us to make a thin, spoon type retainer spring from very thin spring stock and install this in the bottom of the barrel channel reaching down into the ramrod hole. This is also a great ramrod retainer if you switch a fowling piece into a militia musket with a steel ramrod. It tensions the ramrod in the hole perfectly.


The barrrl keeps it down so the staple can be very fine. It really does no work.

[Clark Badgett]

Like Stophel said, your lock is way low. By you scale you have only about .125 from the top edge of the pan to the bottom edge of the barrel flat. Fill the bottom half of you lock inlets an put that plate closer to where it should be.

[Stophel]

Personally, I would chuck it, and start all over again.  Call it a learning experience.  (I have done my own learning this way....I have stocks here that I got fairly far along on and decided it was just wrong and put them away, got a new stock blank and started over.) 

Assuming your pan is still sufficiently on the barrel (which I still can't believe).... alternative 1 is, as was stated, no front lock bolt or use some kind of hook arrangement.  I do think the gun will look quite odd with the lock being so low.

Alternative 2 is to cut into the bottom of the barrel channel (and probably filling the bottom of the ramrod channel) and make the ramrod go ABOVE the front lock bolt.  Yes, it was done on rare occasion.  Yes, it looks goofy.  And yes, you will probably then run into barrel tenon problems, and yes, your ramrod will have to be quite tapered.

Alternative 3 is to carefully fit and inlet wood to fill up your low lock inlet, glue it in with Titebond II or III, and then re-inlet the lock where it should be.  Yes, you will possibly cut into the glued-in part when shaping the stock, so the fill pieces need to be WELL fitted.

 

[Not English]

Alternative #3, You might consider gluing in filler pieces in the lock mortise and filling the hole to the top in layers. I would cut the filler pieces out drop off from the same stock trying to orient the grain the same as the stock. I would use epoxy glue and color it to the approximate future color of the stock. I use poster paint powder for a colorant, but any dry pigment  will do. I have used this method to repair a broken fore stock. If done carefully, you'll need to look really hard to find any glue lines. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Pete G.]

Cutting the rr short is NOT a solution.

[Eric Krewson]

Been there done that, but it was a bad precarve lock inlet.

[577SXS]

I think Eric's way is the best way to fix your problem until you get a new blank and start over.

[StevenV]

I thought some might be interested in how the problem was dealt with, lock blot issue. I used a 6/32" front lock blot and reduced the diameter a bit. I found a ramrod tip with narrow diameter ( quite period correct, I might add). I used the one of the suggestions to use that "long iron rod" and went in and scraped some wood out worked great, thanks. I also used the suggestion to go in from the bottom ramrod channel , helpful. I will fill that in later . Does nothing to the function of the gun. I met with the owner about three , four weeks ago for the final fitting ,  he shot the gun in the white worked great , extremly fast ignition ( I believe placing the touch hole at the front of the breech plug and conning the face adds to the speed of ignition along with the White Touch Hole Liner).  I still have about .140" below the ramrod channel for the bottom wall of the gun after all the scraping and gouging. I delivered the gun today ( we met at our club) to the new owner, he was extremely satisfied. Thanks for the suggestions, on to the next gun.       Steve

[pjmcdonald]

Steve,
Well sorted and a very handsome gun. If I may, on your next build you could raise the touch hole 1/32” or perhaps 1/16”, until the touch hole liner  almost touches the top of the flat. This will allow you to bring the lock up and get even slimmer.

In any case, a fine riffle. Nicely aged, fine finish, and graceful lines.

Regards,

Paul

[little joe]

I have a rifle by a well knownmaker, no front screw, no hook and has serviced me for years. Some of the old southern flinters only had only one and no hook.