Author Topic: Oven Cleaner For Coloring Cherry (Read 11605 times)

Tim Crosby · « **on:** August 06, 2009, 06:31:14 PM »

I have heard of using oven cleaner to color cherry, did a search and did not come up with much. Is it just spray it on and wash it off, does it need to be neutralized? Do I just do some test pieces, different times and see what I get? Any ideas or experience would be appreciated.

Tim C.

LynnC · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2009, 06:53:02 PM »

I use Easy-Off.

Spray it on and wash it off with water.

The longer you leave it on, the darker it gets. Test some samples.

I think I used vinegar to nutralize though some say it aint needed.

Easy

Robert Wolfe · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2009, 06:55:36 PM »

I used it on a fowler and liked the results. Just sprayed it on and left it for about 10 minutes. Then washed it off. I did not neutralize.

LynnC · « **Reply #3 on:** August 06, 2009, 07:26:25 PM »

10 Minutes!!!

Was it black?

I was scared to leave it on 30-45 seconds!

I guess it depends on the cherry.

Really, it was probably on about a minute before I got it all washed off..........Good luck.

Robert Wolfe · « **Reply #4 on:** August 06, 2009, 08:03:31 PM »

No, not black. A nice reddish brown. If you search in the archives under "Cherry Fowler" and my name you'll find it. I tested it on some scrap to come up with the time needed. I suppose the piece of wood makes a difference and perhaps the brand of oven cleaner too. Always test on a scrap of the same piece of wood.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2009, 08:05:53 PM »

I used about a tablespoon of Red Devil lye in a qt of water. Swab it on and leave it on for 10 or 15 min then swab again if its not dark enough. I neutralized it with baking soda. I kept the rifle I did this on for about 6 months and it had not darkened any more than when I stained it.

Dennis

Robert Wolfe · « **Reply #6 on:** August 06, 2009, 08:20:51 PM »

Dennis, both lye and baking soda are basic so not sure that the baking soda is neutralizing for you. To neutralize lye you would need an acid. Or, am I missing something? I did not neutralize my cherry stock and it has not darken over the past year.

Greg S Day · « **Reply #7 on:** August 06, 2009, 08:53:30 PM »

You're correct. Lye is a base. So you need an acid to neutralize. I've used the Red Devil Lye and water (1 tablespoon to 1 cup). Turns color almost immediately. Sample strips help with timing. Flushed with cider vinegar and then flushed with water. Nice color. No long term changes.

Greg

Stophel · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2009, 09:54:16 PM »

You're already neutralizing when you put the lye on the stock. Cherry is high in tannic acid. The Lye reacts with the tannic acid and causes the color change. If you don't stain the wood, should you worry about neutralizing the tannic acid?

Now, I suppose the lye might be stronger than the tannic acid in the wood, but so what? Wash it off with water, and you will physically get rid of a fair amount of the lye anyway. Besides, I don't want my stock to smell like vinegar.

You could, I suppose, if you're concerned, wash it with a lime solution, which will neutralize whatever is there, acid or base, but I don't know what the color effect would be.

You do need to rinse the stock off to remove as much lye as possible to help stop "saponification" of whatever oil finish you may decide to use. Oil+lye= soap. I neutralize my A.F. stained maple with lye and just rinse the lye off, and have had no problems with oil finishes.

Black Hand · « **Reply #9 on:** August 06, 2009, 10:13:42 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Glazener on August 06, 2009, 08:05:53 PM

I used about a tablespoon of Red Devil lye in a qt of water. Swab it on and leave it on for 10 or 15 min then swab again if its not dark enough. I neutralized it with baking soda. I kept the rifle I did this on for about 6 months and it had not darkened any more than when I stained it.

Dennis

Why are you using a base (baking soda) to neutralize a base (lye)?

Birddog6 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 06, 2009, 11:47:14 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Glazener on August 06, 2009, 08:05:53 PM

I used about a tablespoon of Red Devil lye in a qt of water. Swab it on and leave it on for 10 or 15 min then swab again if its not dark enough. I neutralized it with baking soda. I kept the rifle I did this on for about 6 months and it had not darkened any more than when I stained it.

Dennis

I was all over the area 6 mo or so ago trying to find lye. None in any hardwres or grocery stores anymore around here. I guess the Meth makers use it so nobody will stock it anymore = less drug heads coming in to their stores... Oh they won't stock Coleman fuel either, same reason.....

My cherry stock blanks eventually darkened, but it took them 2 years..... Would be nice to find something readily avail. that would make it happen faster. Don't like the idea of staining it. May try some oven cleaner & see how it does...

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #11 on:** August 06, 2009, 11:59:18 PM »

I tried some Easy Off on some scraps for different times form 1 to 10 minutes, it just seemed to darken a little more the longer it stayed on. The color also is deeper in the wood the longer it stayed on. I washed it off with water, the grain raised but not as much as I would have expected. Once it is dry I will put some finish on it and see what it looks like.
I wondered what reacted with the lye to make the color, I figured it had to be something in the wood itself, Chris answered that one.

Thanks For The Info, Tim C.

PS: Oh yes, the color, it is a redish-brown, according to my helper, I'm color, red,green, brown blind.TC

Stophel · « **Reply #12 on:** August 07, 2009, 12:04:27 AM »

Lye will also work on maple....depending upon the tannic acid content. Maple is generally not high in tannic acid, but some pieces have more than others. Depending upon the particular piece of wood, you can get a magnificent deep, golden brown on sugar maple with lye. Or, you get nothing...

I presume that one could make up a tannic acid solution, and apply it to the maple, and that way increase the color-ability of the lye. Haven't tried it yet. I can imagine that boiling some acorns would produce a sufficient amount of tannic acid.

I was told years ago at Williamsburg, that you can further darken A.F. colored wood by applying a tannic acid solution.

If acorns are not available, I think Ky. Antec sells ready-to-go tannic acid solutions. www.kyantec.com

Lye turns cherry more reddish, but cherry wood will turn a most beautiful medium brown on its own when exposed to air...over a long period of time. Don't know how long it takes. I don't know if the ammonia-fuming produces this same effect (though faster), but I think it does. Haven't tried this. Never felt like making a suitable box to enclose the stock.

Colonial Riflesmith · « **Reply #13 on:** August 07, 2009, 04:27:16 AM »

Hey guys, this is good info. I've never heard of the lye dye before. I'm going to have to try it.

volatpluvia · « **Reply #14 on:** August 07, 2009, 05:32:19 AM »

I'll say it again. Just put a coat of BLO on the stock when it is ready to finish. Let it soak in and about a week later start putting your finish on. It will turn a most pleasing red/brown and you don't have to neutralize it. It will continue to darken to a most pleasing antique color as the years roll by. Don't stain or use lye on cherry, it doesn't need it. JMHO.
volatpluvia

Eric Laird · « **Reply #15 on:** August 07, 2009, 07:02:02 AM »

Here's a maple stocked barn gun I used Easyoff on. Like Birddog6, I looked and looked and couldn't come up with lye, so I ended up with the ovencleaner. I just made sure the primary ingredient was lye.

I didn't neutralize, just washed really well. Finished with some of the Tried & True oil varnish.
Eric

Eric Laird

Robert Wolfe · « **Reply #16 on:** August 07, 2009, 03:01:18 PM »

Here is my oven cleaner cherry fowler.

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #17 on:** August 07, 2009, 03:25:15 PM »

Quote from: volatpluvia on August 07, 2009, 05:32:19 AM

I'll say it again. Just put a coat of BLO on the stock when it is ready to finish. Let it soak in and about a week later start putting your finish on. It will turn a most pleasing red/brown and you don't have to neutralize it. It will continue to darken to a most pleasing antique color as the years roll by. Don't stain or use lye on cherry, it doesn't need it. JMHO.
volatpluvia

I will give that a try also. What did you use over the BLO?

Thanks, Tim C.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #18 on:** August 07, 2009, 04:12:28 PM »

Quote

Dennis, both lye and baking soda are basic so not sure that the baking soda is neutralizing for you. To neutralize lye you would need an acid. Or, am I missing something? I did not neutralize my cherry stock and it has not darken over the past year.

Well you can see I never studied chemistry! Someone told me I needed to neutralize it so I used the same thing I use on aqa fortis. Anyway it did not darken any more while I owned the rifle.

Quote

Lye will also work on maple....depending upon the tannic acid content. Maple is generally not high in tannic acid, but some pieces have more than others. Depending upon the particular piece of wood, you can get a magnificent deep, golden brown on sugar maple with lye. Or, you get nothing...

Never used this on maple but it should work. I have aged pine by brewing a strong solution of tea then painting it on the pine. The I put it in box along with a saucer of 28% ammonia (bought it from a drugstore). I sealed the box up with masking tape. Left the pine in the box for a couple of days and when I took it out it looked 200 years old. I would assume that maple would do the same. I understand that the strong tea solution provides the tannic acid .
Dennis

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #19 on:** August 07, 2009, 04:17:01 PM »

Quote

I was all over the area 6 mo or so ago trying to find lye. None in any hardwres or grocery stores anymore around here.

I just thought of this, if you have old wood ashes, especially hickory (I am told) you can leech the lye out by pouring water through them. This is the old way of getting lye for lye soap.
Dennis

Birddog6 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 07, 2009, 04:22:36 PM »

That is allot deeper into wanting lye than I want to get........

If I have to go thru that whole process just to get lye, I will just change stocks !

Colonial Riflesmith · « **Reply #21 on:** August 07, 2009, 05:00:17 PM »

Sorry if I'm behinf on your acronims, What's BLO stand for.

Robert Wolfe · « **Reply #22 on:** August 07, 2009, 05:15:02 PM »

Boiled Linseed Oil

Stophel · « **Reply #23 on:** August 07, 2009, 07:33:16 PM »

Lye on sugar maple:

This one has some shellac on it just to see what it will look like with a finish.

This one is plain sugar maple. Didn't color nearly as much, but still a fair amount:

I tried lye on another stock, and got nothing. Depends upon the particular piece of wood.

volatpluvia · « **Reply #24 on:** August 08, 2009, 02:18:55 AM »

Tim,
I believe I used tongue oil as bought in the hardware store. It made a nice hard finish and looks good. I have also used Jim Chamber's 18th century formula on some stocks and it gives a nice hard finish as well, but tends to be a little shiney. The last cherry I used BLO on for color was a cedar chest for my older daughter. Every time I get to her house I just have to stop and admire the color of that wood.
volatpluvia

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Author Topic: Oven Cleaner For Coloring Cherry (Read 11605 times)

Black Hand

Birddog6

Colonial Riflesmith

Birddog6

Colonial Riflesmith