Thomas Simpson Capture Lid Patch Box Recreation

[bama]

While building the copy of my Thomas Simpson original I made these photo's to post my progress. Since the photo's have been lost in the Photobucket rip off. I will re-post them for those inquiring about captured lid boxes.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Fantastic!!!

Cory Joe Stewart

[Elnathan]

Quite a gun, both of them. I must have missed most of this the first time through, as I remember you discussing how you did the silver additions to the brass, but the finished gun is new to me.

I have to ask, do you know why the catch internals protrude through the buttplate? Unless it is just a matter of space the only purpose I can think of is that it gives a way to tap the catch shut if it gets stuck open, which seems a rather unlikely situation.

[bama]

Elnathan, the extension that protrudes though the butt plate acts as a guide and keeps the release square with lid catch. Without this guide the release would not function consistently. This is without a doubt the most complicated release system that I have ever done. I think it was Simpson’s way of showing off his skill level to the rest of the smiths of his time. Many of the latter boxes that were influenced by Simpson were not nearly as involved as this release.  Not saying that’s bad or good just different.

[J. Talbert]

Jim,
I don't recall seeing this if you had it previously posted.

Very cool!
I love that patchbox.  Did you cast it?

Great job,
Jeff

[FALout]

Thanks Jim,  really good info with few words.  I have a long way to go in just acquiring parts for the southern rifle, but am always considering all aspects of the “next” build.  I really need to learn how to post pics, computer stuff is not my forte.  Not having access except through pictures can be limiting, I’m really jealous of those who can regularly handle an original or even work on them to see how they are built.  Thanks for taking the time to re-post the pics.
Bob

[BOB HILL]

Beautiful, Jim. A classy piece of work.
Bob

[Greg Pennell]

What a lovely rifle!  Beautiful work, Jim...hope to see it in person if we ever get to have shows again...

Greg

[bama]

Hi Jeff

I did cast the box using the original as the master. I also cast the butt plate, trigger guard and side plate from the originals. I drove to Colonial Williamsburg to meet up with Richard Sullivan and he did the casting for me. This was a great project and I am in the process of building another copy. I donated the first copy to the Mississippi Masonic Mountain Men who raffled it to raise money for the Children’s Hospital. My rifle raised a total of $45,000 dollars. I was very proud an honored to be able to help this worthy cause.

Anyway, we cast 3 sets of furniture. I kept two and gave a set to Richard for helping with the casting. Sully is a big Thomas Simpson fan also and I was glad to share with him.

[Carl Young]

"I donated the first copy to the Mississippi Masonic Mountain Men who raffled it to raise money for the Children’s Hospital. My rifle raised a total of $45,000 dollars."

I knew it was being raffled but did not know the outcome. I am proud of you for doing this, and it will be a big star in your crown! "Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me."

Carl

[J. Talbert]

Hi Jeff

I did cast the box using the original as the master. I also cast the butt plate, trigger guard and side plate from the originals. I drove to Colonial Williamsburg to meet up with Richard Sullivan and he did the casting for me. This was a great project and I am in the process of building another copy. I donated the first copy to the Mississippi Masonic Mountain Men who raffled it to raise money for the Children’s Hospital. My rifle raised a total of $45,000 dollars. I was very proud an honored to be able to help this worthy cause.

Anyway, we cast 3 sets of furniture. I kept two and gave a set to Richard for helping with the casting.
Sully is a big Thomas Simpson fan also and I was glad to share with him.

Jim,
You should be proud.  No wonder the raffle was so successful, considering such a fine, out of the ordinary rifle. 

Just wondering, how long did it take to cast the 3 sets of parts?

Jeff

[bama]

Jeff, it took us about half a day to cast the parts. We sand cast the parts so needless to say the parts come out pretty rough and need a lot of clean up. In addition we had to remake the molds after each cast. It was a fun day and Richard did a great job. This was the first time I had done any casting so I was relying on Richards expertise. The biggest problem is shrinkage. When using the original parts as the masters all of the cast parts come out about 6% smaller in all dimensions. So my patch box is a little shorter and not quite as wide as the original and the trigger guard a tab bit shorter. All in all though it was a great experience and I learned a ton about casting. For starters it's a lot harder than it looks but doable at the same time.

Believe it or not the side plate was the hardest part to cast. It is a very thin part and you would think it would be easy to cast but we tried about 6 cast and only got 3 side plates that were usable.
 

[bama]

Here are pictures of the other parts we cast and the original parts and a shot of the cheek piece side of the rifle.

[Ed Wenger]

Beautiful rifle, Jim..., really well done!!    Best,

       Ed

[J. Talbert]

Jeff, it took us about half a day to cast the parts. We sand cast the parts so needless to say the parts come out pretty rough and need a lot of clean up. In addition we had to remake the molds after each cast. It was a fun day and Richard did a great job. This was the first time I had done any casting so I was relying on Richards expertise. The biggest problem is shrinkage. When using the original parts as the masters all of the cast parts come out about 6% smaller in all dimensions. So my patch box is a little shorter and not quite as wide as the original and the trigger guard a tab bit shorter. All in all though it was a great experience and I learned a ton about casting. For starters it's a lot harder than it looks but doable at the same time.

Believe it or not the side plate was the hardest part to cast. It is a very thin part and you would think it would be easy to cast but we tried about 6 cast and only got 3 side plates that were usable.

Thanks for the info.  I know of the shrinkage with casting, but honestly your cast parts look every bit as big if not even bigger than the originals in some of the pictures.

Jeff

[helwood]

Greetings,
Thank you for posting the photos of your work.  I really enjoy seeing the inner workings.  Wish I had more and better words.
   Later, Hank

[t.caster]

Pretty much the definition of: AWESOME!

[Clint]

Jim,
I have made a rifle with a captured box lid and I soldered the hinge tabs to the surrounding brass. It went very well. On my current build, I don't think I have enough metal to support the hinge so I think I will mount the hinge on the wood inside the box cavity. I am looking for your opinion as to sequencing the inletting. My thought is to cut the cavity first and inlet the lid and hinge. It seems to me that it would be reasonable to use the lid as the locator for the rest of the box surround. Any red flags in your opinion?

[J. Talbert]

Jim,
I have made a rifle with a captured box lid and I soldered the hinge tabs to the surrounding brass. It went very well. On my current build, I don't think I have enough metal to support the hinge so I think I will mount the hinge on the wood inside the box cavity. I am looking for your opinion as to sequencing the inletting. My thought is to cut the cavity first and inlet the lid and hinge. It seems to me that it would be reasonable to use the lid as the locator for the rest of the box surround. Any red flags in your opinion?

This top iron mounted rifle was done the way you describe except that the hinge is anchored under the finial.  Held by the two screws in the final.  No major obstacles or problems that I recall. 


Good luck,
Jeff