Author Topic: Wheeler & Son Northwest trade gun  (Read 735 times)

Offline HURON

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Wheeler & Son Northwest trade gun
« on: May 20, 2020, 04:21:49 AM »
Hello...I am new to the forum and wanted to see if you guys could check your reference books regarding this WHEELER & SON NORTH WEST TRADE GUN...I am curious to know the date that it was made...I am guessing between 1813 and 1821?  Also does your books state that these were traded and used by the Natives or just fur traders?  There are no military markings on it..I am looking for an example that would have been used by the Natives in the War of 1812 and unsure if this one would fit my goal.  I should mention it has a 37 inch barrel.
















Offline Robert Wolfe

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Re: Wheeler & Son Northwest trade gun
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2020, 05:18:05 AM »
Encyclopedia of Trade Goods (Hanson and Harmon 2011) has a similar trade gun on page 231. Shares the same  style sideplate, round barrel,  and buttplate. But, lock is a little different and it does not have a rear sight like yours does. They say "The last flintlock model of British common gun for Indians, made by Robert Wheeler & Sons in the 1820s-30s. It has military style butt plate, side plate, butt stock, and a round barrel. The only North West gun features are the lock, binding strip at the muzzle, ramrod guides, and trigger guard. It has a 36 inch barrel, .65 caliber, and weighs 6 pounds."
Robert Wolfe
Northern Indiana

Offline HURON

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Re: Wheeler & Son Northwest trade gun
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2020, 06:45:10 AM »
What is different about the lock..is it a flint lock or is it flat?  I was thinking the musket I have here dates to 1813 to around 1820....I'm wondering if the lock on the other musket in the book makes it a little later?

Offline Robert Wolfe

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Re: Wheeler & Son Northwest trade gun
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2020, 04:14:38 PM »
The toe of the frizzen and the cock are different. The cock is the style that has the top jaw that wraps back around the top spur on the cock if that makes sense. Forget what that style is called. The shape of the stock is spot on. Perhaps they got locks from different suppliers.
Robert Wolfe
Northern Indiana

Offline HURON

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Re: Wheeler & Son Northwest trade gun
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2020, 04:22:22 PM »
can you add a pic similar?  Do you mean percussion?

Offline HURON

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Re: Wheeler & Son Northwest trade gun
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2020, 04:25:29 PM »
The toe of the frizzen and the cock are different. The cock is the style that has the top jaw that wraps back around the top spur on the cock if that makes sense. Forget what that style is called. The shape of the stock is spot on. Perhaps they got locks from different suppliers.

Oh you mean like this?




Like on Steve's example...second pic
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 04:30:11 PM by HURON »

Offline Robert Wolfe

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Re: Wheeler & Son Northwest trade gun
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2020, 10:19:08 PM »
Yes - like that. Here is a pic of the pic from the book. Note that the lock is externally unbridled like yours, unlike Steve's. If you are interested in trade guns I can't recommend this book enough. So much information and so many photo's it is truly amazing. Wonderful resource.



« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 10:25:09 PM by Robert Wolfe »
Robert Wolfe
Northern Indiana

Offline HURON

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Re: Wheeler & Son Northwest trade gun
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2020, 04:48:49 PM »
Thanks Robert..if anyone else has information regarding this style of trade musket please add what you know...as Robert has mentioned they are saying this musket dates to around 1820-1830...I feel like it dates earlier than this...1813/14 to 1821...any input would be greatly appreciated...I have no books as of yet and will be buying some..but in the mean time I'm hoping some of you guys with the library or knowledge could add to this discussion.

Offline jrb

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Re: Wheeler & Son Northwest trade gun
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2020, 10:59:57 PM »
Why do you feel the gun is earlier than the book shows? James Hanson wrote the 583 page book on trade guns Robert referred to. He's written countless articles and many books on trade guns and fur trade.  Maybe you can find an email address to the Museum of Fur Trade, which he runs, and send pictures of the gun, etc.

Offline HURON

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Re: Wheeler & Son Northwest trade gun
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2020, 05:26:05 AM »
Great idea..thanks so much!!