Author Topic: Gun Building Research  (Read 964 times)

Offline John Morris

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
    • The Patriot Woodworker
Gun Building Research
« on: May 23, 2020, 12:18:09 AM »
While doing some research into guns, I found The Metropolitan Museum of New York, and they have a wonderful section for Longrifles, and the image resolution is incredible, not too mention the images are open source, no copyright, so that can be useful too.
But boy oh boy, what a great resource I feel for the builder.

Link below, let it load, it takes awhile, then click on the image, then click on it again, and use their zoom in and zoom out features. You can also download the images and use them for any purpose.

https://www.metmuseum.org/search-results#!/search?q=longrifle

Just thought it may be helpful to some. :)
John Morris

Offline tfornicola

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2020, 02:26:20 AM »
The display at the Met. is amazing. There is also a room full of English guns. Highly recommended if in NYC,

Offline rich pierce

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13569
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2020, 04:03:27 AM »
I think British style fowler #1 from Grinsladeís book is there. Massive gun.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline Willbarq

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2020, 05:17:51 AM »
I was looking at the Nicolas Beyer gun there. It's been said you can tell an inexperienced builder by a stock that is made with flat surfaces. Looks like his gun blows that rule out ...... throwing that rule away.

Offline smallpatch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3537
  • Dane Lund
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2020, 07:22:58 AM »
Will, totally disagree.  Itís still nicely rounded, even though some panels are long.  Definitely not like a 2x4.
In His grip,

Dane

Offline Elnathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1467
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2020, 12:08:45 PM »
I was looking at the Nicolas Beyer gun there. It's been said you can tell an inexperienced builder by a stock that is made with flat surfaces. Looks like his gun blows that rule out ...... throwing that rule away.

I can't get the pictures to enlarge. What specifically are you looking at? The only thing I can see that might have prompted your comment is the height of the forearm, and I think that the apparent flatness is a trick of the light, and the fact that he kept the forearm height fairly high (at the mid-point of the barrel, if not slightly higher,) and with what looks like a pretty slim barrel to boot.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying...cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -Robert A. Heinlein

Offline Nazgul

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2020, 12:15:56 PM »
Thanks for the link. Spent an hour looking at details.

Don

Offline alacran

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 635
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2020, 03:24:03 PM »
Interestingly Elnathan, that particular rifle does not an enlarge option on the pictures, You can enlarge it using the zoom feature on your browser. No it is not slab sided. I zoomed in on the fore arm and it has an interesting upper moulding treatment. Also there is a horizontal highlight on the lower part of the forearm caused by the lighting that if you look carefully it is rounded.
"From one thing know 10,,000 things" Miyamoto Musashi

Offline Elnathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1467
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2020, 10:54:37 PM »
Interestingly Elnathan, that particular rifle does not an enlarge option on the pictures, You can enlarge it using the zoom feature on your browser. No it is not slab sided. I zoomed in on the fore arm and it has an interesting upper moulding treatment. Also there is a horizontal highlight on the lower part of the forearm caused by the lighting that if you look carefully it is rounded.

I know it is rounded. However, Beyer was not following the modern rule of thumb to leave 2/3 of the side flat exposed, and he is using what appears to me to be a skinnier barrel than the Rev-war era rifles that seem to provide the basis for most of the proportions we look for today.  The side of the forearm is accordingly fairly tall in proportion to to the exposed barrel, and that is what Willbarq was seeing, not slab-sides. It does look flat, though, particularly from the cheek side, if you aren't looking carefully.

I had a look at another rifle in a book, and apparently those are typical Beyer proportions, BTW.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying...cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -Robert A. Heinlein

Offline RJD-VT

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 48
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2020, 01:16:39 AM »
Thanks John,
I didnít know they had a longrifle display. Very good photography. And with some pics you can get a lot of detail.

Online Stophel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4384
  • Chris Immel
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2020, 02:24:25 AM »
Some Beyer guns look much nicer than others (kind of like Dickert guns).  I wonder if his quality declined with his age/health.
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline rich pierce

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13569
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2020, 02:45:00 AM »
Some Beyer guns look much nicer than others (kind of like Dickert guns).  I wonder if his quality declined with his age/health.

Markets change also. In Dickertís case he ran a big shop serving varied customers.
St. Louis, Missouri

Offline John Morris

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
    • The Patriot Woodworker
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2020, 08:29:56 AM »
Glad ya'll enjoyed it, there is more too.
Did a search for Powder Horn and found this. Same website of course.

https://www.metmuseum.org/search-results#!/search?q=powder%20horn
John Morris

Offline alacran

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 635
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2020, 03:53:25 PM »
If you search for German flitlocks on this site, there a couple of interesting German pistols but oddly enough there is a pistol by Egg that has an inverted lock which employs what is basically a snap lock. The mainspring is on the outside and also serves as the frizzen spring.
Also there is a beautiful rifle by Haushka.
"From one thing know 10,,000 things" Miyamoto Musashi

Offline smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5092
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2020, 05:00:31 PM »
At one time there was two Jacob Kuntz rifles there, both stunning of course and and Acer and Evon A. did a exam on one of them. No doubt one of the greatest long rifles ever made IMHO.

Offline Jose Gordo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 901
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2020, 08:52:16 PM »
There is a Kuntz rifle here https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/24681

Interesting gun. Inlays are both bone and steel.
Everything is harder than it looks. Except for silver. Silver is softer than it looks.

Offline Willbarq

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2020, 06:16:05 AM »
Will, totally disagree.  Itís still nicely rounded, even though some panels are long.  Definitely not like a 2x4.
  It's gorgeous. Somewhat flat looking forearm below the entry pipe. I agree, definitely not like a 2x4.

Offline t.caster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3162
Re: Gun Building Research
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2020, 04:45:17 PM »
Great reference source, thanks for posting!

I agree the Kunz rifle was amazing to examine! What is the screw head doing at the forward extension of the trigger guard though? There is not enough wood there to screw into, and it would shorten the ramrod!
Tom C.