Author Topic: Back on paper after 160 yrs  (Read 1928 times)

Offline Dave B

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Back on paper after 160 yrs
« on: May 25, 2020, 08:13:52 PM »
I want to share with you guy's how awesome it is to have the resources available here at ALR. Yrs ago I was given an original 36 cal half stock barrel 34" X 1.050 and a back action lock. The condition of receiving the barrel and lock was that I make it into a complete rifle. This was in the mid 80's. I built the rifle but the bore was just too rough to shoot with out tearing up the patches. I accepted it would never be a shooter. Then Came Rich Pierce into the picture. Having been following his posts about freshening out old barrels and bringing them back to serviceable condition was intriguing to me.  I have several that were candidates for freshening. I finally settled on the half stock .36 barrel.  I got the rifle barrel back a couple weeks ago. I got it all back together and over to the range. Here is the very first target with the 1st 2 shot group at 10 o clock 2nd 3 shot group at 5 O clock after sight correction.  I had lost the sight ramp and had to make a new one and shot a second target to get them into the black and here is my last target you see here with the freshening rod Rich made to do the job with cutters for the lands and grooves in place.  What a joy to soot. He freshened it out to about .37 cal. I shot .360 balls with .020 patching in the 1st target. It loaded just a little too tight and I broke my ramrod ending my session that day. I was cutting bullet holes at the 5 O Clock before it broke. This 1st target groups (out of the black)are the first bullets out of this freshened barrel in 160 yrs. Thanks Rich This piece is back in service and just a hoot to shoot. Couldn't have done it with out your help.





Dave Blaisdell

Offline Daryl

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Re: Back on paper after 160 yrs
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2020, 09:06:21 PM »
Great things happen when plans come together.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline canadianml1

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Re: Back on paper after 160 yrs
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2020, 10:00:21 PM »
Can you share some details of the "freshening" process................very interesting!!!

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Back on paper after 160 yrs
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2020, 11:43:26 PM »
Can you share some details of the "freshening" process................very interesting!!!

I think I’ve posted before and Uncle Jim Everett has as well. It’s a lot of work and unless you really want it done the old time way AND preserve the form of the original rifling and do not want to have a big caliber jump you should send the barrel out to be re bored and rifled or lined. 

1) determine if barrel is salvageable without cutting at muzzle or breech. If the breech is so eroded that there are zero traces of rifling left, we are looking at cutting at least 2 calibers. Figure 1 caliber per full work day. Make sure the remaining rifling is strong enough to turn the rod with a tight wad on the worm.

2) clean barrel bore as well as possible to remove loose rust using a worm and coarse steel wool lubed with oil. Lube the bore.

3) drive an oversized ball into the muzzle. Cut off the flash and short start it then drive it through to the breech. Measure and inspect it. If the lands or grooves look stripped, send it to Bobby Hoyt to rebore it and rifle it.

4) Now it’s time to set up a lead lap for freshing the bore. I get a hickory rod to fit in the bore without much slop. 2” from one end file a square on the rod about 2” long. Leave a half an inch round at the end. Below the square area file a slot around the rod. In the square are file some notches to “grab” the lead lap. Slide the rod into the muzzle with the designated lap end sticking out the muzzle. Wrap string in the slot below the lap area till It makes the rod a snug fit. Plenty snug. Slide the rod into the bore further till the square area is just into the muzzle.

5) torch heat the barrel while melting lead in a ladle. Get it hot but don’t unsolder anything!  Pour the lap. Let cool and trim off the flash. Measure it at the deep and muzzle ends. You probably have to do some filing and trimming with narrow chisels at the muzzle end. Do what you have to do to get the lead lap to go through the bore end to end.

6) now you need to make cutters. I use 1095 flat stock. The land cutter needs to span across the edges of the grooves and it should be rounded like the bore. The groove cutter must be within about 0.001” of the groove width and square edged. I hand file teeth about 12 per inch.

7) inlet the cutters on opposite sides of the lead deep enough to slide through the bore un encumbered.  Now start shimming them up till they cut. Use thin paper or foil shins 0.0015” thick.

8 get to work cutting groove by groove and land by land shim by shim for many hours.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 11:51:12 PM by rich pierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline canadianml1

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Re: Back on paper after 160 yrs
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2020, 06:50:08 AM »
Sounds like a long difficult process to be reserved for only the most valuable of guns!

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Back on paper after 160 yrs
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2020, 02:10:48 PM »
Sounds like a long difficult process to be reserved for only the most valuable of guns!

Doing things the old way is fun for me. Restoring a barrel the way it would have been done “back then” is satisfying. Many of us enjoy acquiring and using the skills of gunsmiths from the flintlock and percussion periods. This was a very common job for them.
Andover, Vermont

Online Bob Roller

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Re: Back on paper after 160 yrs
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2020, 02:51:46 PM »
Sounds like a long difficult process to be reserved for only the most valuable of guns!

Doing things the old way is fun for me. Restoring a barrel the way it would have been done “back then” is satisfying. Many of us enjoy acquiring and using the skills of gunsmiths from the flintlock and percussion periods. This was a very common job for them.

Many years ago the late and still much missed Tom Dawson told me that he
thought that we who are deeply involved with historic rifles and artifacts are
now trying to relearn what was once common knowledge.
For me it has been a good run and I am happy with my experiences and the
many friends that came along with them and I wouldn't trade them for any
thing now.
 I intend to still make double set triggers and have a list of names I will inform
as they are finished.

Bob Roller

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Back on paper after 160 yrs
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2020, 02:57:04 AM »
I second Mr. Roller's comments, except I've never made a set of triggers!

The folks that we come into contact with on this forum are really the salt of the earth.  Generally speaking, if you are having a problem relating to muzzle-loading firearms, the folks here will tell you how to take care of the problem.

And, NO, they will not force you to take their advice, but you will really be better off if you weed through the suggestions and adopt the fix that you feel most comfortable with.

Persons such as the Sapergia brothers, Rich, others, will go out of their way to assist you, even to finding parts-pieces for you.

OP, I envy you, being able to fire that rifle after 170 years - quite a feat.  Please don't be afraid to try Rich's method of renewing the rifling.  It has been done for several hundred years, and might as well keep it going for another several hundred.
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.