Author Topic: Albrecht Pistol  (Read 1485 times)

Offline utseabee

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Albrecht Pistol
« on: May 26, 2020, 03:59:57 AM »
   I am looking for information on this pistol built by Albrecht. Looking for barrel dimensions, caliber ETC. Any information that you have would be greatly appreciated.






Offline blienemann

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 195
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2020, 05:57:57 AM »
This pistol was posted here about Jan 2018 by a gentleman from Germany who had acquired it there, dirty and uncovered the name with cleaning.  I don't know if someone here purchased the pistol?  I have not seen dimensions or detail posted to date.  Bob

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3391
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2020, 03:07:23 PM »
I’ll see if I still have the owners email.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3391
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2020, 05:48:10 PM »
the owner's email is excelsior@gmx.de  It would be nice to bring this one to the USA.  I'm just not in a position to do it.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Eric Kettenburg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2834
    • Site
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2020, 06:47:53 PM »
It's interesting but just to play devil's advocate, how do we know this is "the" Albrecht that we're thinking it is?

Just had to throw that out there.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline blienemann

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 195
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2020, 07:13:43 PM »
To Eric's point, in Moravian Gunmaking II we included a German pistol signed on the lock A ALBRECHT very neatly and boldly engraved.  We go on to say -

Der Neue Støeckel lists an Andreas Albrecht working at Hanau in Hessen-Nassau, Germany ca 1750, and states that he was the father of Julius Albrecht.  The same reference then lists Julius Albrecht, mentioned in 1755, who became a master and was the son of Andreas.  Hanau is a short distance east of Frankfurt, and would have been in west central Germany at that time, between Suhl and the Palatinate.  An Albrecht gunmaker is listed at Bayreuth ca 1740-60 in the same region.  Our Andreas Albrecht came from a large family – he might have been at Bayreuth, or perhaps these men were cousins or otherwise related.  Another dozen Albrechts worked at gunmaking in Germany and Switzerland from 1500 through 1850.  The Albrecht, Albright and Albert names all derive from the same root, and often appear as a first name as well as a family name. 

Bob

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3391
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2020, 09:13:52 PM »
It's interesting but just to play devil's advocate, how do we know this is "the" Albrecht that we're thinking it is?

Just had to throw that out there.

We don't but it will be fun to investigate
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline utseabee

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2020, 02:50:48 AM »
the owner's email is excelsior@gmx.de  It would be nice to bring this one to the USA.  I'm just not in a position to do it.

Thank You. I will try and reach out to him for some information. I am certainly not in the position to bring this one to PA right now, but that would be a prize. Besides being a fan of Albrecht's or other Moravian work, I like the looks of it. I'd like to build something that looks close to that one.

Offline spgordon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 772
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2020, 03:28:16 AM »
If the “ALBRECHT” engraving on the barrel were not present, in roughly what time period would y’all place this pistol?
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 01:36:16 PM by spgordon »
Check out The Lost Village of Christian's Spring:
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And The Letters of Mary Penry: A Single Moravian Woman in Early America
http://www.psupress.org/books/titles/978-0-271-08108-3.html

Offline utseabee

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2020, 12:55:38 AM »
If the “ALBRECHT” engraving on the barrel were not present, in roughly what time period would y’all place this pistol?

       I was able to contact the person who owned the pistols at the time of the original posting and he was kind enough to reply. I am not sure he owns it now, but he is going to look up the details on it over the weekend and let me know what he has. Here is was he did tell me in his response.
      "Back then I did a lot of research on the pistol and I am quite sure that it was made by Andreas Albrecht around Hanau around
1730-40."

      It will be interesting to see what else he has.

Offline mr. no gold

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2042
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2020, 04:12:37 AM »
My guess on the probable date of this gun would be around 1750-60, and some. However the engraved name on the barrel is amazingly close to the mark on the early signed Albrecht, Lancaster rifle and the known lock found in a barn. I see no reason why this pistol could not be a legitimate 'Andreas Albrecht' piece, and if he was making guns in the old country then the possibilty grows stronger.
It could have even been made over here and found its way back to Europe. Not likely, but we have some unusual facts here. Not as if we will ever know; but this one invites speculation.
Dick   

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10542
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2020, 02:08:16 PM »
My guess on the probable date of this gun would be around 1750-60, and some. However the engraved name on the barrel is amazingly close to the mark on the early signed Albrecht, Lancaster rifle and the known lock found in a barn. I see no reason why this pistol could not be a legitimate 'Andreas Albrecht' piece, and if he was making guns in the old country then the possibilty grows stronger.
It could have even been made over here and found its way back to Europe. Not likely, but we have some unusual facts here. Not as if we will ever know; but this one invites speculation.
Dick
That is how I would date it as well.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline spgordon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 772
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2020, 06:55:25 PM »
"The" Andreas Albrecht, who ended up in Bethlehem, was making arms in Germany by the late 1730s--and did so probably for about a decade (part of which involved work in the armed forces) until he moved to the Moravian settlement of Herrnhaag in 1748. Whether he worked as a gunsmith there is unknown, though he probably did as he was identified as a "rifle maker" when he immigrated to Bethlehem in 1750. If this looks like a pistol from the 1750s, it would be American made. It seems very likely, however, that Albrecht undertook very little made-to-order work during the 1750s: his work likely consisted mostly of repair work.

I've posted this link before but will take the liberty of re-posting here: https://www.immigrantentrepreneurship.org/entry.php?rec=263
Check out The Lost Village of Christian's Spring:
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And The Letters of Mary Penry: A Single Moravian Woman in Early America
http://www.psupress.org/books/titles/978-0-271-08108-3.html

Offline WESTbury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 629
  • Marble Mountain central I Corps May 1969
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2020, 09:01:38 PM »
I've read Scott's paper on Albrecht. It was very definitely worth the time invested to read it as was his paper The Ambitions of William Henry.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 09:22:16 PM by WESTbury »
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline Chowmi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 808
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2020, 01:42:20 AM »
I've read Scott's paper on Albrecht. It was very definitely worth the time invested to read it as was his paper The Ambitions of William Henry.

Is the paper on Henry open source?  Could you post a link?

Thank you,
Apologies for off topic.

Norm
Cheers,
Chowmi

NMLRA
CLA

Offline spgordon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 772
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2020, 03:54:11 AM »
Norm: I put it on Dropbox so you should be able to access it (open it and download) with this link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t4xfljhzdksulh6/Ambitions%20of%20William%20Henry.pdf?dl=0
Check out The Lost Village of Christian's Spring:
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And The Letters of Mary Penry: A Single Moravian Woman in Early America
http://www.psupress.org/books/titles/978-0-271-08108-3.html

Offline Chowmi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 808
Re: Albrecht Pistol
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2020, 06:29:18 AM »
Norm: I put it on Dropbox so you should be able to access it (open it and download) with this link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t4xfljhzdksulh6/Ambitions%20of%20William%20Henry.pdf?dl=0

Scott,
got it, thank you very much!

Norm
Cheers,
Chowmi

NMLRA
CLA