A rifle barrel and all the shiny new parts that go on it... somehow.

[Steamingspud]

Good mornin fellas
SO, my dad has had his Tennessee mountain rifle for a long while, and he had it ordered as a kit and assembled by a gun maker. Very basic but it was something that formed my personality. The full stock, the double set trigger, and the flintlock were my favorites of it, now I want to build my own rifle.
I'm gonna buy from track of the wolf unless you guys have better suggestions, but I ain't just getting a kit. I'm picking and choosing, since it wasn't any more expensive to get the deluxe siler lock versus some of the ones offered in kits. 42" barrel, .50 cal, strait octagonal.
My issue is the barrel. I'm a blacksmith and carpenter for my reenactment group with an entire barn for a shop in NH, so most stuff isn't a problem. But I am unfamiliar with the process of attaching the sights and lugs to the barrel. I've been told it is worth paying track of the wolf the money for the labor, but I wonder if a local gunsmith would be able to do it for cheaper.
The questions are;
How hard is it to complete a rifle barrel from fitting the breech plug to inserting a touch hole liner?
Is it worth paying a smith to do the labor?
And will a local gunsmith be cheaper than track of the wolf?
Thanks and G'day

[eagle24]

I am almost done with my first rifle.  I had some concerns about some of the processes when I started, but managed to get through all of them myself and with the help and advice from folks on here.

First, if you are building a southern or Tennessee rifle, you might consider a Chambers Late Ketland lock rather than a Siler.  I think most of the rifles in that style had English Locks on them, although you see quite a few kits and contemporary rifles with siler locks.  On the lugs and sights, you can do it yourself.  I used a dovetail file that came from Brownells and it really wasn't that hard to do a good job.  You just need some awareness of the barrel thickness in the area you are dovetailing and don't go too deep.  A couple of books that will really help and explain most all the steps in building a rifle are "Gunsmith of Grenville County" and "Recreating the American Longrifle".  I would highly recommend them.

[Rick Sheets]

Mr. Hall,
I am shooter and not a builder so take what I say for what its worth.
If you have Track install your sights, they will mill the dovetail slots in the barrel. There is nothing wrong with that, but aesthetically I prefer the the slots to be hacksawed and filed out then trued up using a Dovetail Forming Chisel.
The upset barrel material on either side of the sights make it look more traditional.
Milling the slots is a way to get repeatable results with little risk doing it wrong, but I just like the way the old time way looks.
Oh, you asked about the cheapest way to get it done and not for my opinion. If you can borrow a copy of Hershal House's how to build a  Kentucky rifle, he shows you how to do it. I have done it and it is not hard. You will need to practice  a couple times using the same metal as your barrel.
Rick

[Berks Liberty]

The questions are;
How hard is it to complete a rifle barrel from fitting the breech plug to inserting a touch hole liner?
Is it worth paying a smith to do the labor?
And will a local gunsmith be cheaper than track of the wolf?
Thanks and G'day

Those were the same questions I had.  So I went out and bought two books "Recreating the American Longrifle" and "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle."  The after I built my first rifle I bought "Gunsmith of Grenville County."  I like all of them but GGC has a little more detail in it.  If your a blacksmith and work with your hands it won't be hard to make a rifle, especially the tasks you raised here.  Just look at it this way....it's not rocket science.  Congratulations on keeping the art alive!  You just might find that a second or even a third rifle will come later.  I like dealing with Track of the Wolf.  They have a lot of really nice stuff.  But once you read one of these books, you might just sit back and say, "now thats how easy it is!"  Good Luck! 

Jason

[Roger Fisher]

Gotta tell ya, If I can do it anyone can

Go for it it won't be your last build!

[Ky-Flinter]

Hi ya Hot Potato....  welcome to ALR! 

Since this is your first build, be cautious about "picking and choosing" parts, lest you end up with an incongruous mixture, or worse, parts that just won't work together. 

The barrel fitting work you mention is not that hard.  You can do it. Your experience as a blacksmith and carpenter will help you.   As GHall said, get ahold of one of the how-to books.  Years ago I got Shumway's "Recreating the American Longrifle" and have subsequently purchased several other how-to books, but I continually go back to "Recreating".  For cutting dovetails, I start with a hacksaw and finish with a straight sided tri-corner file with one side filed smooth.

If you farm the work out, I would not suggest having the machining done on the barrel all at once.  Set the under-lugs, get the lock in place, then you can locate the touch hole.  Sights is one of the last things I do.  Sometimes I take the rifle to the range with the sights taped on, just to try it out.

[ehoff]

Berks Liberty hit the nail on the head, first and foremost get some books on building. I recommend Peter Alexanders "The Gunsmith of Grenville County" and/or Chuck Dixon's "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle". They will serve you well as refrences during your build.

[Bill of the 45th]

You haven't said what style it is going to be.  If it's going to be a southern mtn rifle the deluxe Siler isn't correct for it, as it's a Germanic lock.  Southern rifles have a style of lock that is English in nature like the Siler late Ketland.  As to sites and lugs, the tenons are just hacksaw, file and chisel work.  You really need some resources for building and accuracy in a historical build if that's what you want.  I feel that one or even two of the builders books are a must, and RCA 1&2 for Earlier guns, and Jerry Nobles books for Southern guns.  That said, build what you like, it's your first build to learn from and enjoy.

Bill

[J.D.]

Welcome 'spud. Are you related to Ron White, the comedian?  Gotta see his show to know what I'm talking about. 

Bill is right about the Germanic Siler being incorrect for a Southern Mountain rifle. The Chambers Late Ketland has Siler internals, and is as fast and reliable as the Siler. IMHO, it's a better looking lock too.

I you want a correct Southern gun, check out Denis Glazners web page.

http://www.gillespierifles.com/

Since you can't build something if you don't know what it's supposed to look like, check out the very good, detailed photos of original Southern guns in the Virtual Museum and Library, that are a part of this web site.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?board=112.0

If that is not your forte, then check out the resident photos of guns made in the region you are interested in.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?board=21.0

If you are a blacksmith and carpenter, there shouldn't be major issues, with building a longrifle, that you can't handle. Just order at least one of the books mentioned, and dig in.

God bless

[LynnC]

The best advise I can give, as said above, is buy a gunbuilding book.  Several have been mentioned above.  Best investment you can make.

You will feel SO Much more Confident when you begin construction.

If your good with your hands and have a book or two plus this forum, building a basic rifle will be a good experience............................Lynn

[John Knaack]

You can order a barrel from Getz or Rice (can't remember which) and request the work done for less than TOTW will charge.  I don't know what the wait would be for the Getz/Rice work, TOTW used to be a week.  Ed Rayle will do it for a small charge but your looking at 3 to 6 months to get the barrel.  I can do the site and lug work myself with hacksaw and a $60.00 Brownels sight file in about 1.5 hrs.  The cost of a plug and time to install forces me to go with the plug already installed barrels.   None of the operations are difficult.  But, as with anything, there is a learning curve.

[frogwalking]

I once had Track of the Wolf cut the sight dovetails in a barrel I bought from them.  I cut the ones on the bottom that are not normally visible.  The front dovetail they cut was just a tad too big, so the site I bought from them was a little loose.  As luck would have it, I had bought the sight with the widest base they had in stock. Buying a new sight would not help.  It worked out fine however, as I made a new sight base, a blade out of a Mexican silver coin and it works really well.  The point is that if  you are paying for expert gunsmithing, it is best to know the expert gunsmith, or just do it yourself and be careful. 

I guess the point here is you can often do as good or better job as an "expert" it just may take you a lot longer, but that is ok.  Most of us are building guns for the love of building guns, not go get finished.  If it is not perfect, it will be next time.

[J.D.]

Since everyone is talking about cutting dovetails for mounting sights, practice cutting  the dovetails for the sights by cutting the dovetails for the underlugs. Once you do three or four underlugs, you will have it down well enough to accurately cut the ones for the sights.

God bless

[Steamingspud]

Welcome 'spud. Are you related to Ron White, the comedian?  Gotta see his show to know what I'm talking about. 

"They call me... tader salad"

I was almost sure he was gonna get the Sears tower sooner or later, but I guess not!

[Steamingspud]

By the way, my father's Tennessee Mountain rifle is just my 'idol' I guess. But I don't want to replicate it. I'd like to go for a Pennsylvania long rifle style with my own engravings, but I'm not trying to be strict on style. I compete a lot in 'Seneca runs,' if your not familiar with them, its not too complicated. Throw and stick a hawk and knife, light a fire with flint and steel, set a bear trap, etc. In the middle is at the rifle range, which involves two shots at 60 and 100 yards. All this is timed and the coarse can be as much as a mile long.

No I don't plan on winning this event, but it's a concept of respect. If you stick a kitchen knife at 6 paces away, nobody cares. If you dare bring a hunter's bowie knife by choice and throw it 22 paces away sideways while running, it doesn't matter if you stick, people talk about you for rendezvous' to come. Same goes with the rifle. I COULD buy a cheap hawken .32 cal percussion and hit the 100 yard target easily, but who cares? The real story comes with the kid who ran the entire coarse with a full stock .50 cal flintlock, which even the old timers don't do for the impracticality. OH, and it's even more 'epic' if it's a homemade rifle, cause it's very uncommon in my group.

Point is, I'm looking for the best rifle. The longest, the fastest, etc. Style isn't key, I just want to be happy with it until I get time after college and the Air Force to build another one.

I heard some comments on the Siler lock. I was told by someone that the deluxe siler lock is the best of the best, but I think it's disputable. Any suggestions?

As for style, I'm gonna try a generic Pennsylvania-Colonial rifle. I'm a hard-core to the bone New Englander, and any chance to show it off I'll take it!

[Randy Hedden]

I heard some comments on the Siler lock. I was told by someone that the deluxe siler lock is the best of the best, but I think it's disputable. Any suggestions?

Of all the regular production locks, you can't go wrong with a Siler lock or any other of Jim Chambers locks.  The deluxe Siler is a fine lock and you won't be disappointed.  Anytime I am in the market for a lock I look first at Chambers offerings.  Sometimes Jim doesn't have the style of lock I need, like a certain style left handed lock, etc.  Then I look at other maker's locks.  I am sure that the majority of the members of this board would tell you the same thing.

Randy Hedden