Author Topic: Original Nock lock  (Read 2043 times)

Offline alacran

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Original Nock lock
« on: June 12, 2020, 04:11:10 PM »
We had a previous discussion on Rices new Nock lock. There was a lot of speculation about parts from other locks being used , and how the lock could be improved.
Any way I contacted Mr Rice and asked if he could send me photos of the original lock that he patterned his new lock on. He told me it would be OK to post them.

This is the outside of the original.


This is the internal of the lock

This is Rice's new lock externals

This is Rice's new lock internal.
You can compare the original to the new lock for yourself. There are changes and undoubtedly some are made to reduce production time. Which in turn reduces cost.
Some are obvious others more subtle. For one the stirrup is pinned on the original and it isn't on the new lock. Not as noticeable the stirrup is longer in the original. I' m not going to address comments made by others in the other post about using parts from other locks and the comparative sizes of those parts. The metallurgy of today and when the original Nock lock was made are worlds apart.
My observation is that Rice's lock is true to the original while not an exact copy. It does not need to be.
One thing about the original that I liked , is the stud in front of the mainspring used to secure the front of the lock without having a bolt go through the stock. With that construct you don't have to even consider about ramrod interference.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Original Nock lock
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2020, 07:22:59 PM »
On May 30th Heinz posted pictures of one of my mechanisms installed in an
L&R Durs Egg lock.I copied this mechanism from a John Manton lock I saw at
Friendship years ago.I liked the simplicity and "all  business"no curlycue design
and used it until I stopped lock making.It is a stable and smooth thing and I
made a good number of them.It is a good one to copy for a quality lock.
Bob Roller

Offline jerrywh

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Re: Original Nock lock
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2020, 07:53:50 PM »
The one thing I notice is the placement of the main spring.  On the original the spring sits lower on the plate which gives more space for barrel clearance. Al the good English locks I have seen are that way. Why?  The cast springs of today must have more space between the leaves. If they don't it causes problems with the casting process. Modern cast springs are good as far as reliability goes but not as good in this respect.  The hook an the lock plate can be installed in several ways if so desired. I recently inlaid  some  on 2 locks I built. I think the originals were inlaid also but could be forge welded in.  I would like to examine the original here under the microscope.
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Original Nock lock
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2020, 10:14:51 PM »
"The cast springs of today must have more space between the leaves. If they don't it causes problems with the casting process."

So why not heat the cast spring up, reshape it in a jig, then heat treat as normal?

I am not production lock maker.  I guess I don't understand why adding a couple of minuets to each lock is a big deal.  Especially if it addresses a design flaw. 

Offline jerrywh

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Re: Original Nock lock
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2020, 11:10:30 PM »
"The cast springs of today must have more space between the leaves. If they don't it causes problems with the casting process."

So why not heat the cast spring up, reshape it in a jig, then heat treat as normal?

I am not production lock maker.  I guess I don't understand why adding a couple of minuets to each lock is a big deal.  Especially if it addresses a design flaw.
That's a very good idea. But you would be surprised how many won't spend another $2.00 for a better lock.  It puzzles me.
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Original Nock lock
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2020, 11:16:41 PM »
"But you would be surprised how many won't spend another $2.00 for a better lock.  It puzzles me."

Yep.  The brain of the gun too.  They also don't want to spend to get a great heart (barrel). 

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Original Nock lock
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2020, 12:29:04 AM »
"But you would be surprised how many won't spend another $2.00 for a better lock.  It puzzles me."

Yep.  The brain of the gun too.  They also don't want to spend to get a great heart (barrel).

That's the distress market attitude.It used to be prevalent but I haven't noticed that
attitude for a very long time.Some of us simply ignored these people and found others
who wanted quality work and could afford to pay for it.
Bob Roller

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Original Nock lock
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2020, 04:09:17 PM »
I think even with cast springs, they could be made with a peg on the spring to make spring sit  lower.

See attached.   
This one is about 1815.