Author Topic: Guildford County Pouch  (Read 2119 times)

Offline G. Elsenbeck

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Guildford County Pouch
« on: June 16, 2020, 04:28:23 PM »
Having C. Michael Briggs book, Piedmont North Carolina Banded Powder Horns, for several years I've become interested in a hunting pouch accompanied with one of his fine North Carolina Beehive plug powder horn.  With his permission I've enclosed a copy of Figure 3 in his book for reference and after exchanging some emails he graciously gave me some rough measurements of this pouch as I was interested in making one like it.

 

According to Mr. Briggs the overall measurement is approx. 9 in wide, and 7 in high.  Like most originals, this one has no inside divider nor pocket.   The flap closure is short and is fastened to the bag with a button post.  Not sure of the age I would guess late 19th century or early 20th?? 
I took an artistic liberty with the entry lip of the front and will post a copy later, but for now here is my inspired copy of this pouch.  I still have to install the buckle with a strap keeper and the color is more like a deep medium brown as this is just my prototype.


 

 
Journeyman in the Honourable Company of Horners (HCH) and a member in the Contemporary Longrifle Association (CLA)

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

Offline Cory Joe Stewart

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2020, 05:05:20 PM »
Oh wow!

I have always admired that bag in the book and you did a fantastic job with it.

Cory Joe Stewart

Offline Bob McBride

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2020, 05:41:00 PM »
Very cool Gary. I love unique.

Offline MuskratMike

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2020, 06:22:36 PM »
Nice, really nice. Keeping history alive one bag at a time.
"Muskrat" Mike McGuire
Keep your eyes on the skyline, your flint sharp and powder dry.

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2020, 10:59:13 PM »
Hello Gary,

That bag is lovely, and you did a super job on it.  The details are very crisp, and the finish is spotless.   That fringe makes my fingers ache just looking at it.  Nothing lacking in your stitching or edge finishing either.  Well done sir, very well done indeed.  God Bless,   Marc

Offline G. Elsenbeck

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2020, 08:24:47 PM »
Thanks for all the nice comments men, they are appreciated. 

Like I mentioned earlier I neglected to ask Mr. Briggs of a pic of the bag with the flap opened so I utilized some artistic license what the lip of the front looked like.  This is what I came up with. 
Gary

 
Journeyman in the Honourable Company of Horners (HCH) and a member in the Contemporary Longrifle Association (CLA)

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

Offline thecapgunkid

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2020, 01:04:19 AM »
Love that brass post.  Elegant work...

Offline DougS

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2020, 10:44:10 AM »
Gary,

This pouch made me smile  :)

Thanks for sharing.

Regards,

Doug

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2020, 05:01:52 PM »
You did a nice job on the bag, but I do wonder why a welt would have been added to something that was flat stitched if the welt didn't serve as an internal divider?  Any ideas are appreciated.  If I had seen the photo of the original bag without any description,  I would have assumed the welt was an internal divider. 

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2020, 05:51:54 PM »
Hi Mark,

I hear what you are saying, however my thoughts are the reverse.  Here's my reasoning....

Take a sharp flint, striker or turnscrew and drop it into an inside-out bag.  It is going to fall to the bottom, and rest on the turned leather bottom on either side of the seam.  Not on the stitching.

With a flat bag, something dropped inside is funneled to the seam, and the stitching to a degree is what is stopping the item.  So, in my opinion, I think a welt is more important in a flat bag than in inside out one. 

Additionally, other than craftsmanship and beauty, what is the purpose of a welt in an inside-out bag?  The same stitches (inside) on either side of the seam are still exposed the same amount to friction and wear from carried items whether there is a welt or not. There is simply another layer of leather inside the seam, in an area that is not getting wear.  I guess on the outside of the bag the welt might prevent some wear, but those stitches are more up in a sheltered "channel" resulting from flipping the bag.

In other words, I think the things inside the bag have potential to cause seam failure more than outside influences.  I could be wrong though.  Especially if all someone carries is tow.   :-)   

I hope my explanation makes sense. 

I just share this in the spirit of learning, not to cause any conflict. 

God Bless, and best wishes,   Marc

Offline G. Elsenbeck

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2020, 05:54:02 PM »
Mark, good observation.  However, many older bags that were flat sewn did not always have any welting of any kind.  Those that did either became stand alone welting, served as indicative of inside divider, or, as in this case, became strictly a welt that extended beyond the edging to become fringing which serves more of a decorative style the original maker envisioned.  The next time you see original pictures having fringe (they can be sewn flat sewn or be turned) ask to see if they serve as the edge of an inside divider or are standing alone for the fringe only. 
Just as today, original makers were just interested in making themselves stand out in the industry by showing their individuality in the many styles we see today.  And, today, we are benefiting from all those styles, techniques, etc.
Gary
Journeyman in the Honourable Company of Horners (HCH) and a member in the Contemporary Longrifle Association (CLA)

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

Offline G. Elsenbeck

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2020, 07:05:42 PM »
"
In other words, I think the things inside the bag have potential to cause seam failure more than outside influences.  I could be wrong though.  Especially if all someone carries is tow.   :-) "
Marcruger, I agree with your interpretation,  ;)   


Journeyman in the Honourable Company of Horners (HCH) and a member in the Contemporary Longrifle Association (CLA)

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2020, 07:27:20 PM »
When I asked the question above,  I wasn't looking for an argument; just thinking out loud.   Actually, my knowledge on bags and horns is pretty limited.  I appreciate the feedback.    It gives me something to think about with regard to the usefulness of a welt.   

Offline Bull Shannon

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2020, 03:32:32 AM »
I'm digging the bag a lot.
You can't kill a man who is born to hang!

Offline Bob McBride

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2020, 04:07:38 AM »
I'm digging the bag a lot.

Me too. I think I've came back and looked at it and the original posted several dozen times.....

Offline thecapgunkid

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2020, 01:43:38 PM »
You probably all have a good point, and Bob McBride nailed it...I come back to look at this pouch.

As far as I know, the main function of a welt is to help protect the seam and stitching inside the seam.    Evidently a lot of hand stitched seams back in the day broke when exposed to wear in between the two pieces of leather.

In shoes this usually happened near the ball of the foot, where bending induced grinding and tearing on the seam, in spite of the half cast and high amount of handwax.  Dunno about bags, tho...

Offline T.C.Albert

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Re: Guildford County Pouch
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2020, 04:48:13 PM »
Very nice bag. The classics are, well, pretty classic!
You did it justice for sure.
TC
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Contact at : huntingpouch@gmail.com