I Have My Gun, Tips Welcome

[John Morris]

Dear folks, I will soon be the proud owner of my very first Flintlock rifle, soon I will have this in my hands. https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=60566.0
I'd like to thank 120RIR for helping me and being a pleasant fellow to deal with, thanks sir!

When I first came aboard here a couple months ago, I was dead set on jumping right in and building the first flintlock I would fire, but I had some reasonable back room feedback from a member here I'd like to thank, Art Fleener (Snapper), while Art was very encouraging regarding building my own first rifle, he also laid out some good advice, and based on that advice he got me to thinking, I need to cool my jets and perhaps get a rifle in my hand, and perhaps carry it around for awhile and fire it, get to know how these work, and then I'd be in a better position to build, and that made complete sense to me, while Art was not saying that directly, he did spur my mind to think a bit more on it, and my gut was telling me to get one in my hands, examine it, shoot it, sight it in, etc. I am glad I am going this route. Plus, I really want to shoot, now! Not a year from now when the rifle build would be complete.

I also purchased a couple great books that you all advised me on as well, "Flintlocks, A Practical Guide for their Use and Appreciation (Eric A. Bye)", and "The Gunsmith of Grenville County (Peter A. Alexander)".
Also, I joined NMLRA and The Contemporary Longrifle Association, I have already made contact with an NMLRA charter locally to walk on the range and meet the folks, super happy about that.

I am about a third way through the gunsmith book, and I have read through much of the practical guide book, now that I am ready to have a rifle in my hands, the practical guide book is even more exciting to read now.

Given the fact that I am reading, and studying, does anyone here have any tips or words of wisdom you could impart with a complete greenie muzzle loader guy?
I do have a few questions, and I could probably find the answers in the practical guide book. But I am interested in your feedback if you have the time.

• How do I know what size patch I need?
• Can I purchase balls that are exactly 50 caliber, sometimes I read you guys talking about balls a tad larger or smaller depending on type of shooting.
• What would be a good powder to use? Probably a highly subjective question.
• I have read a good load to start out with is the same size of the caliber, so I would start out with 50 grains for my 50 cal?
• My book says I need to clean my guns bore with a swab about ever three or so shots at the range, is this excessive?

Just a few of my questions, and thanks to anyone in advance for chiming in, appreciate it greatly.

[smylee grouch]

Join a club and find a mentor to help you get started.

[rich pierce]

How do I know what size patch I need?
The ball/patch combination is what counts. I’d start with a .490 ball and a 0.022” patch or a .495 ball and a 0.018” patch. You’ll know what works when you have a combo you can load and the patches stay intact with no cuts or burn through.

Can I purchase balls that are exactly 50 caliber, sometimes I read you guys talking about balls a tad larger or smaller depending on type of shooting.
See above.

What would be a good powder to use? Probably a highly subjective question.
Most powders are great. You’ll get more shots per pound with FFFG.

I have read a good load to start out with is the same size of the caliber, so I would start out with 50 grains for my 50 cal?

I’d start with 60 grains and go up or down 5 grains. Ball/patch combo is #1 in my view then charge.

My book says I need to clean my guns bore with a swab about ever three or so shots at the range, is this excessive?

Most folks either develop a load that doesn’t need wiping at all (Daryl Sapergia load) that works because it’s tight enough and wet enough to basically wipe the bore while loading

OR

A target load fir the range where the barrel is wiped every shot. Wiping every 3 shots would give different bore conditions for each load.  That’s not conducive to accuracy.

[OldMtnMan]

Unless you're lucky enough to have a shop near you to buy black powder. You'll have to do like most of us and buy it online. It can be shipped directly to your home.

There are a few combinations of what powder to use on a flintlock. Some use 2F for charge and 4F for the pan. I like to keep is simple and only carry one powder. So, I use 3F in the pan and for the main charge. I have it all in one powder horn and it makes it easier. Keep in mind you can't use any the fake substitute powders. You have to use real black powder in a flintlock.

I buy mine from here. They have good prices and low shipping and Hazmat fees.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/3501

If there's one flaw in the GPR rifle it's the lock. I owned a couple of them and didn't like the locks. You can buy an aftermarket lock from L&R that will be a very close fit. You might have to trim a little wood to get it to fit but it will give you a little taste of building a gun.

I agree with Rich. Start with 60gr of powder and increase it in small steps to find the most accurate load. A .490 ball and .018-.020 patch is a good place to start. Tighter is better. I don't think your gu has been shot much. The GPR won't get the best accuracy until a 100 or more shots is put through it. The rifling comes a little rough and needs shooting to smooth it out. You can speed up the process by using a compound like JB's to smooth the bore.

Have fun with your new gun.

[Daryl]

Well done John Morris.  Now, look at the muzzle and if it looks like this, it will cut the patches as you load.
That is not good for accuracy or for clean shooting:



You want it to look like this, nice and smooth to allow the ball and patch to smoothly transition into the bore
as you load:



You make it look like the second picture by doing this, rotating your wrist back and forth:
Rotate the barrel 90 to 180 degrees every 15 seconds of so. This process only takes a couple minutes.
I use 320 emery cloth, or 320 wet/dry paper, done dry.

[hanshi]

All I can add is that should you experience lock problems then rely on this site for help.  There are lots and lots of "gun doctors" ready and willing to help.  All advice above is spot on.

[John Morris]

Join a club and find a mentor to help you get started.

Thanks smylee. Got a club shoot going to in a few weeks, talked to the president of the club a few days ago and he was very open and welcoming. He leads the Laguna Mountain Men and they seem like a lively bunch. http://www.lagunamountainrendezvous.com/index.html
They shoot every third Sunday and they got a big 10 day rendezvous in October, can't wait.

[John Morris]

All I can add is that should you experience lock problems then rely on this site for help.  There are lots and lots of "gun doctors" ready and willing to help.  All advice above is spot on.

Hanshi, great bunch here indeed, I can't believe the knowledge that is shown here, incredible.

[John Morris]

Well done John Morris.  Now, look at the muzzle and if it looks like this, it will cut the patches as you load.
That is not good for accuracy or for clean shooting:

Daryl, can't thank you enough for this tip, and thanks much for taking the time to put up the images showing the technique, this will be one of the first things I do to my gun if needed. Thanks again sir.

[John Morris]

Have fun with your new gun.

Pete, thanks for all the great advice you given, appreciate it much. And thanks for the link!

[John Morris]

How do I know what size patch I need?
The ball/patch combination is what counts. I’d start with a .490 ball and a 0.022” patch or a .495 ball and a 0.018” patch. You’ll know what works when you have a combo you can load and the patches stay intact with no cuts or burn through.

Can I purchase balls that are exactly 50 caliber, sometimes I read you guys talking about balls a tad larger or smaller depending on type of shooting.
See above.

What would be a good powder to use? Probably a highly subjective question.
Most powders are great. You’ll get more shots per pound with FFFG.

I have read a good load to start out with is the same size of the caliber, so I would start out with 50 grains for my 50 cal?

I’d start with 60 grains and go up or down 5 grains. Ball/patch combo is #1 in my view then charge.

My book says I need to clean my guns bore with a swab about ever three or so shots at the range, is this excessive?

Most folks either develop a load that doesn’t need wiping at all (Daryl Sapergia load) that works because it’s tight enough and wet enough to basically wipe the bore while loading

OR

A target load fir the range where the barrel is wiped every shot. Wiping every 3 shots would give different bore conditions for each load.  That’s not conducive to accuracy.

Rich you addressed it all, thanks sir, appreciate it greatly. I have dived into these forums more and found some great topics started by newbie shooters as well, I am sorry that I have asked the same questions here that seems to have been asked before.
Can't thank you all enough!

[John Morris]

I like to keep is simple and only carry one powder. So, I use 3F in the pan and for the main charge. I have it all in one powder horn and it makes it easier. Keep in mind you can't use any the fake substitute powders. You have to use real black powder in a flintlock.

Pete, the 3F at https://www.grafs.com/goex states (Pistol). Does it matter? Thanks

[OldMtnMan]

It will be fine. A lot of us use 3F in our large bore guns.

It's possible that your gun won't be as accurate with 3F and will like 2F better. I've never actually run into that but it happens. Advantages of 3F over 2F are more power, less fouling, cheaper because you can use less for the same fps as 2F, ignites easier/faster.

[WadePatton]

Welcome John Morris.

It appears you'll get is all sorted soon enough. You appear to have good enthusiasm and attitude and that's plenty enough.  Every single thing cannot be learned all at once.  There are the basics, and then there's a lot of nuance and the nuances tend to have widely varying opinions/practices. Each shooting session will answer some questions while raising others. Enjoy!

Powder first.

W

[John Morris]

It will be fine. A lot of us use 3F in our large bore guns.

It's possible that your gun won't be as accurate with 3F and will like 2F better. I've never actually run into that but it happens. Advantages of 3F over 2F are more power, less fouling, cheaper because you can use less for the same fps as 2F, ignites easier/faster.

Thanks Pete for your help!

[John Morris]

Welcome John Morris.

It appears you'll get is all sorted soon enough. You appear to have good enthusiasm and attitude and that's plenty enough.  Every single thing cannot be learned all at once.  There are the basics, and then there's a lot of nuance and the nuances tend to have widely varying opinions/practices. Each shooting session will answer some questions while raising others. Enjoy!

Powder first.

W

Wade, thanks for your sage advice. Appreciate it. I'm a young 54 years old and to have something come along and excite me like this, is pretty danged cool at my age, never stop learning, never stop teaching, keeps us feeling young. Retiring in about 6 years and this new interest will keep me busy and outdoors in retirement, woodworking is an indoor close to home thing, I can get wrapped up in that easily, but to have something to head outside for, is a great plus.
Cheers!

[Daryl]

Well done John Morris.  Now, look at the muzzle and if it looks like this, it will cut the patches as you load.
That is not good for accuracy or for clean shooting:

Daryl, can't thank you enough for this tip, and thanks much for taking the time to put up the images showing the technique, this will be one of the first things I do to my gun if needed. Thanks again sir.

John - you are most welcome. BTW - I stopped being a "sir" when I retired from Corrections. The technique is simple and makes a world of difference
to the loading.
As for balls, both .490" an d.495" are available. To start with, the .490's might be better until you get your regime down and some pounds of powder's use
behind you.  The larger ball will theoretical give better accuracy, but might be stiffer loading and the difference would not be apparent at this stage, for sure.
Some folks have been shooting a lot of years and still use a ball .010" undersized. Note that a slightly ticker patch is recommended when doing this, to take
up the windage.

[John Morris]

John - you are most welcome. BTW - I stopped being a "sir" when I retired from Corrections. The technique is simple and makes a world of difference
to the loading.

Ha! You got it Daryl. And thanks for the clarification on the ball and patch size, I am on TOW right now ordering a few things, just in time your advice. Thanks!

[John Morris]

Goex powder, man I had a wake up call just now, shopping for it and I see the final price to my door, the powder started out at 20 bucks then by the time it gets to my door it's 42 bucks.
Fixed-Rate Shipping:   $9.95
Hazardous Materials Fee:   $12.50
Subtotal:   $42.44

Graf and Sons, I guess if we don't have a source nearby then this is just the way it is.

[Bob McBride]

Goex powder, man I had a wake up call just now, shopping for it and I see the final price to my door, the powder started out at 20 bucks then by the time it gets to my door it's 42 bucks.
Fixed-Rate Shipping:   $9.95
Hazardous Materials Fee:   $12.50
Subtotal:   $42.44

Graf and Sons, I guess if we don't have a source nearby then this is just the way it is.

Sign up for email ads from your favorite suppliers. They all do free hazmat fees and sometimes free shipping several times a year.

[John Morris]

Sign up for email ads from your favorite suppliers. They all do free hazmat fees and sometimes free shipping several times a year.

Thanks Bob! It also appears if you purchase more than one jug of the powder, they only apply the hazmat and shipping once.

[OldMtnMan]

I didn't think you could order just one pound from Graf's? They used to have a 5lb minimum. The price per pound gets better the more you buy.

I just ordered a bunch of Swiss powder. Its price will get your attention but it is the best powder we can buy. At least in my opinion.

[John Morris]

I didn't think you could order just one pound from Graf's? They used to have a 5lb minimum. The price per pound gets better the more you buy.

I just ordered a bunch of Swiss powder. Its price will get your attention but it is the best powder we can buy. At least in my opinion.

Haven't ordered yet Pete, I'll check on that fact though, I decided to purchase two anyway, since they only get ya for one HAZMAT and one shipping fee per shipment.

On the average, can someone tell me how long a lb lasts? Or how many shots?

[John Morris]

Welp, just tried to order my measly 2lbs o powder, looks they require a minimum 4lb order.

[OldMtnMan]

Order 4 lbs. You'll use it up. With 4 lbs the Hazmat and shipping fees are divided by 4 per lb.

4 lbs should be about $110 to your door or $27.50 lb. Buy more and it's gets cheaper by the lb. Some places are free Hazmat and shipping if you buy a case. Split the cost with your buddies for a case. Join a club and buy powder from them. They buy in volume.

Now, go blow some smoke.