Breaking in the Gillespie

[AZshot]

Thanks to all the tips on this forum.  I'm breaking in the Gillespie rifle, solved a few problems this morning:

1. Cleaning no longer causing flash rust.  It was definitely the hot water used that time, I didn't change lubes or anything. This time I used cold, and no brown in the final patches.

2. Flash in the pan gone. Picking the vent before every shot worked wonders.  I had been doing it just after a misfire.  Now I'll do it before every shot.  The feather was too soft to go in much, especially the soft end! Just used the old pick from the measure. I did not try 4F for the pan this time.  But I can perceive it's firing a lot faster now, I push the wire about half way through the powder charge, wiggle it a little to open up a channel.  I also replaced the flint, after sharpening it once or twice, I think I got my money out of it.  Tried a french amber, seems great.

3. Patch burn through gone.  I gave up on scavenging various cloth around the house.  All were too thin, or too thick.  I got the Goldilocks patch by just buying some at a local muzzleloader shop (Thunderstick - Tucson).  Between the faster shot sequence, and better patches, my accuracy has gone up enough to get ready to benchrest it. 

Fun morning, and it's almost cleaned already!

[mountainman70]

Good deal bro. Ya gotta shoot em sos they can teach you important stuffs like you be learnin. Fine looking rifle for shure.
btw, I had a bud weld up the lockplate  and after filing, it is ready for a new build.Thanks for selling it to me. Dave F

[Marcruger]

I would highly suggest not bench resting like a modern rifle. A long barrel with slow ball speed allows a BP barrel to jump and whip when set on a rest. Hold the forend like you do offhand.  Sit up as straight as possible. Put your forend hand on top of the rest. I think you’ll have success that way. Best wishes, Marc

[flinchrocket]

I would highly suggest not bench resting like a modern rifle. A long barrel with slow ball speed allows a BP barrel to jump and whip when set on a rest. Hold the forend like you do offhand.  Sit up as straight as possible. Put your forend hand on top of the rest. I think you’ll have success that way. Best wishes, Marc

If that is true why do the chunk gun shooters rest the end of the barrel on a chunk?

[Marcruger]

Because it is tradition in a chunk gun match, and also note that chunk guns tend to have very heavy barrels. Those don’t whip or flex as much as more sporting or offhand guns. Nor do they jump as much due to weight. That is my understanding, and the way I rest it works for me. I know others use this method as well. The OP is asking about a light Gillespie rifle. I believe my advice to be sound. 

[Bob McBride]

Hey AZ, the feather is more to seal the touch hole to keep humidity out of the charge. Good on ya using a prick instead. My kind of rifle.

[flinchrocket]

I respectfully disagree. In the old X matches they rested the end of the rifle on a chunk of wood and they were using their personal rifle. The new table matches are shot on a table designed to rest the barrel out on the end. I have always shot cross stick and bench with the end of the barrel being supported at the muzzle without any problems including a 13/16 45cal. If you have any barrel whip it is caused by the bullet as it passes thru the barrel and is already gone by the time the barrel moves.

[little joe]

What flinchrocked said

[alacran]

Supporting the rifle close to the end of the muzzle, minimizes movement of the rifle.  If you think of the support as a pivot, this makes absolute sense.  Shot cross ticks for many years. Never cared much for bench shooting, though I have done it. Never seen any one in the winners circle that didn't support their rifle close to the muzzle.

[Daryl]

The reason I hold the forend in my hand and rest the back of that hand on the bag, is because that gives me the same POI as offhand shooting.  This gives me improved accuracy for testing loads but with a meaningful point of impact for sight adjustment.

[Daryl]

I have tried resting the forend or under-ribbed barrel out at the muzzle end, with and without the rod on the pipes.
None if my rifles liked it and they all shot tighter as I moved the "rest" back towards the entry-pipe, which turned out to be the best location.

[AZshot]

Rests are better for me to sight in, than trying to hold a flintlock with all it's fireworks.  But I recognize that where you rest the gun makes some differences in accuracy.  My main thing is not wanting to scratch up the pretty rifle, with it's long stock drop.  I'll probably do a little bit of a lot of above.  I used cross sticks with my black powder cartridge Sharps matches, may still have them somewhere.

[flinchrocket]

A leather rear bag for high power rifle shooting filled with sand makes a good front rest. It's solid and won't scratch up your gun.

[Daryl]

Double-bagging will usually improve accuracy as well, but will usually change the POI from standing shooting zeros.

[alacran]

Double-bagging will usually improve accuracy as well, but will usually change the POI from standing shooting zeros.

Daryl you always give sage advise when it comes to shooting. If the rifle is going to be an offhand mostly gun, shooting off cross sticks or benching it should be used only for developing loads. So you are only shooting for groups. Once the load has been established, proceed to shoot it off hand and sight it in.

[WadePatton]

As I see it "returning to battery" exactly is the key for a good group. Whether your bench technique shoots to the same POI as offhand or other positions is up to the individual and his gun to sort out.

Returning to battery-putting the gun back into the exact same position for each subsequent shot. Know exactly where your rest points and pressures are.  Maybe move them around to see how POI is affected, if at all.

Any time your battery position changes in a string of shots, you've added a variable. Working up a load is easiest when only one variable is changed at a time.

[Marcruger]

Yes, return to battery in the exact same spot is important, as the BPCR guys show with tape on their barrels as a reference point. 

I do have to point out that if resting on the end of the muzzle was conducive to repeatable accuracy, why do modern benchrest folks have their bag under the foreend (not the muzzle), and why do they free float their barrels?  Something to ponder. 

Resting on my hand under the foreend works well for me, and does produce the same point-of-aim offhand or benched, as Daryl noted. I think the OP needs to try both and see what works for him. 

Respectfully,   Marc 

[AZshot]

I've done quite a bit of target shooting in my life.  The thicker the barrel, the less it matters where you put the front on the rest, but it does matter still, a little.  During recoil lots of things happen.  The gun goes back and up, the barrel can oscillate, your rest can become a fulcrum, and more.  The best accuracy is consistency with all those things. Down to when you breathe, and how your heart is beating even.

With this flintlock, I just need a little more steadiness than when I'm holding it.  I KNOW I'm not following through enough, I call my shots.  So I want to see more what it's capable of.  Not get the best precision possible from it, I just want to make sure my loads are shooting pretty good groups.  Right now, I'm all over the place.  In BPCR I shot AAA class, and I got Expert Rifle and Expert Pistol medals in the Navy, etc.  I know what I'm doing shooting, just not with a super long, super slow flintlock!   

[flinchrocket]

Find a nice place in the shade so you don't have the sun on your sights to mess with you. Put a target up at 20 yds and shoot.

[Marcruger]

Another suggestion would be to shoot at some moveable targets.  Rubber self-healing targets, bottle of water, medicine bottles.  I do that when teaching someone new. 

If I start someone on paper, they can get distracted by the flash and blast, and start flinching.  If they are trying to HIT something, the focus is on the item, not the flash.

Alternate between the moveable targets and the paper targets.  Sort of like switching to a .22 when you get a high-powered rifle flinch. 

Just a thought.  Hope it helps a little.   God Bless,   Marc

[alacran]

Yes, return to battery in the exact same spot is important, as the BPCR guys show with tape on their barrels as a reference point. 

I do have to point out that if resting on the end of the muzzle was conducive to repeatable accuracy, why do modern benchrest folks have their bag under the foreend (not the muzzle), and why do they free float their barrels?  Something to ponder. 

R

I could explain that to you but this is not the forum for such discussion. Lets just say you are talking apples and oranges.

[AZshot]

I can tell I'm starting to hold more steady, from the first few times.  I'm sure it will get better each time.  I also do some dry firing with just the set trigger, as well as letting the hammer fall a few times and make sparks.  The uncertainty of having a shot go off sometimes, and not others, was messing me up.  I think I've got that less likely to happen now.

[Daryl]

With a cap lock, shooting is VERY similar to modern guns as to the speed of ignition, however with a flintlock, you
HAVE to follow through.
I shoot flinters off the bags just as accurately as I do a cap gun. It's shooting them 'standing' that messes me up
with the lag in ignition. I do not own a rifle that I can hold steady, but have to 'squeeze it off' when the sights are
close to being right. Taylor, on the other hand, has a steady hold and could actually hold on that dang squirrel's
head & eyeball, most of the time - and hit it with his flinters. Me, not so much - lol.
I need to get back into shooting the .69 cap-lock more - I'm out of practice & it shows.

[flinchrocket]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50079047192_a1298be341_z.jpg

[Daryl]

Tested that resting out there in 3 of my rifles. None of they would group when rested out near the muzzle.
Depends on the gun & the accuracy you demand or are willing to put up with.  Every one of them shot best
when rested at the entry pipe. That went for full stocks and for my 1/2 stock.