Author Topic: off hand shooting, a humbling experiance! (Read 8009 times)

adkmountainken · « **on:** July 13, 2020, 03:23:40 AM »

i have shot muzzleloaders for 32 years now and consider myself a pretty fair shot FROM A BENCH. a good friend who shoots with me asked if i wanted to participate in this months postal shoot on another forum and i agreed. now in my 32 years of shooting smoke pole i can count on 1 hand how many times i have auctauly shot free hand besides when hunting! i have just always sighted in and shot from a bench. today i was shooting Miss Fish my .45 flinter rebuilt by the late Tim Brown of Oregon. this gun is DEAD NUTS from a bench! i can tell you its a humbling experience when actually shooting free hand for score! i feel both of us shot well and i was happy but i am so use to bench and cloverleaf groups at 20 yards it was a bit depressing yet still great fun! i now have a new fire lit under me to improve my free hand shooting! you just never stop learning in this sport!

Roughneck · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2020, 03:40:41 AM »

Ya offhand is my favorite way to shoot my flintlocks and the only way I do normally shoot them. For me it’s a great challenge shooting them at 100 yards. I think I have only shot a couple from the bench once or twice.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2020, 04:16:19 AM »

If hunting, I'll always take a lean on whatever is handy. Won't use off-hand for longer distances at all.

Best,
Richard.

Keith Zimmerman · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2020, 04:20:07 AM »

I rarely shoot from the bench and never out of a box. I have yet to see a box or a bench on a woodswalk or trail shoot. Always out of a bag. Amazing what the bibskinners and box shooters need to shoot. Good luck shooting offhand. I think u will realize how accurate u can become with practice. And how frustrating it can be the next day shooting the same gun and loads.

Rawhide Rick · « **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2020, 05:19:15 AM »

What adkmountain ken neglected to share was another learning experience he and I had today. Too much talking and not enough paying attention to details left me with a patched ball on top of no powder. First time I’ve done this. He suggested dribbling powder in through the touch hole, prime the pan and shoot it out. Actually worked. Thankfully, cuz I don’t have a ball puller for 32.

577SXS · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2020, 03:13:53 PM »

I have been an offhand shooter all my life. Only use a bench to tune and sight in. I have been a good shot and some said I was a great shot. When I started shooting flintlocks I got really humbled. I'm still trying to learn to not raise my head and or listen to the frizzen opening. I use ear plugs and muffs when practicing to keep me from hearing the clack before the bang. I'm a better shot hunting than I am target shooting. I'm going to beat this flintlock thing and if I can learn to shoot them offhand as well as I can shoot other guns I'll be a crack shot.
To people like George Sutton, Mr. Flintlock and the rest of you good shooters my compliments to you. You have mastered a difficult gun to shoot accurately.

rich pierce · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2020, 04:16:45 PM »

For me, bench shooting and offhand shooting are so different it is almost like 2 different sports. Like riding a bicycle on a road versus a gnarly mountain bike trail.

John SMOthermon · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2020, 04:25:39 PM »

Apples vs Oranges...

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2020, 04:50:13 PM »

I never ever bench shoot. Not even to sight in a gun. Offhand is the proper way to shoot a gun.

The only way to get good at it is to do it 100% of the time.

snapper · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2020, 04:56:07 PM »

I would get very frustrated trying to sight in a gun if I was just shooting off hand.

Fleener

Bob McBride · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2020, 04:57:02 PM »

Quote from: OldMtnMan on July 13, 2020, 04:50:13 PM

I never ever bench shoot. Not even to sight in a gun. Offhand is the proper way to shoot a gun.

The only way to get good at it is to do it 100% of the time.

I do bench shoot to sight in and develop loads but I don’t get much satisfaction bench shooting for sport but do enjoy it dialing in distances, etc. I like to shoot supported when possible in a hunting situation but of the hundreds of rabbits I’ve taken not one has fallen to supported fire. (Nothing like rabbit hunting in Alaska on peak Rabbit years. It’s like ‘Whackamole’).

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2020, 06:06:24 PM »

I found that my POI from a bench was different from my offhand POI. So, I stopped doing it. I start real close to get the sights close. Then when I can put the ball in the same hole I start to move back farther. It probably takes longer than a bench but I enjoy it more.

Plus, i'd have to go to a range to shoot from a bench. The only thing I hate more than shooting from a bench is doing it at a range. We can shoot anywhere in National Forest as long as we have a good backstop. So, I do all my shooting there. It's only 5 min away and the range is 40 min away. Easy decision for me.

I'm happiest when i'm alone. I do all my shooting and hunting alone. It's who I am. An old mountain man.

Marcruger · « **Reply #12 on:** July 13, 2020, 09:02:43 PM »

Right Pete. The POI can be different.

That is what I was thinking when I read the OP's post. If you only shoot from the bench, you don't know where it will hit offhand. If the gun wasn't sighted for offhand, the OP's shooting could have been fine, but he could still miss.

That is why Daryl and I have pointed out that when shooting from the bench for a gun to be used elsewhere, hold the gun like it will be used in the field. Hold the foreend with your hand, and support your hand on the rest. Also, sit up straight. The POI will not vary offhand as much.

One other thing to keep in mind.....the OP notes his gun shoots cloverleafs at 20 yards. Even smooth bores will shoot good at 20 yards. Try the gun out at 50 yards, 75 yards, 100 yards. You'll learn a lot, and perhaps find out you have not yet located the optimum load for that gun.

Once sighted, I only shoot offhand. I use clay birds and rubber seal-healing targets at the 50 yard line. I have found swamped barrel longrifles to hang in the hand better offhand than anything modern I've tried. I guess the old guys knew what they were doing.

I hope this helps. God Bless, Marc

snapper · « **Reply #13 on:** July 13, 2020, 09:24:26 PM »

I HATE shooting ranges and having to deal with other people as well. When I go to my buddies farm and shoot, he does not have any shooting tables or benches. SO, for less then $50 bucks you can buy a MTM shooting table. It is not rock solid, but it is not bad either. I like it since it is light and easy to throw into a vehicle.

I use mine quite a bit for sighting in a rifle.

Fleener

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #14 on:** July 13, 2020, 09:24:41 PM »

I agree that swamped barrels hold better. I can't believe how long I can hold Dennis's old gun in comfort. The barrel is 38" and holds better than barrels 10" shorter that aren't swamped.

Swamped barrels and offhand go together like peanut butter and jam.

btw..I'm not recommending that others sight in offhand. It works for me but i've been shooting offhand exclusively for 69 years. It's all I know.

Roughneck · « **Reply #15 on:** July 13, 2020, 09:47:17 PM »

I am with OldMtnMan. I always sight mine in offhand cause that’s how I shoot. I know last time I shot with a somewhat local club I was doing some final filing of a front sight when I was shooting offhand. A couple of the guys were surprised that’s how I was doing it. I don’t think they believed me that there could be a difference sighting them in offhand compared to off a bench. I told them I wasn’t sure cause I have never sighted one in from a bench. The only time I have shot off bags was to see if it was the rifle or me not getting good groups at 100 yards and every time it was me!!

Dan · « **Reply #16 on:** July 13, 2020, 11:04:21 PM »

Took a little practice to get here. but I did and it was educational in all regards.

.45 Turpin Flintlock, 50 yards offhand

One thing led to another and while this isn't match grade shooting, it works for me.

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #17 on:** July 13, 2020, 11:07:00 PM »

Dead elk/deer at 50 yds and maybe 100 yds.

Robin Henderson · « **Reply #18 on:** July 14, 2020, 12:55:41 AM »

I use to be a pretty good offhand shooter but the ravages of time and no practice have taken their toll. A couple of targets from days gone by with the same .54 flintlock....crow at 50 and buffalo at 100 yards.

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2020, 01:00:02 AM »

Yes, you were a good offhand shot. You can get it back. You just need practice.

hanshi · « **Reply #20 on:** July 14, 2020, 01:26:10 AM »

I can't recall ever taking a shot at a deer standing-off hand. I do shoot rounds frequently from the bench but I mostly shoot from "field positions", sitting, kneeling, etc. I still do shoot off hand some for the challenge. My eyes are very poor now but I once shot very well standing up. For me, if I want to shoot a lot off hand, a straight barrel 42" that's a little muzzle-heavy works much better than a swamped barrel. I like swamped in the field but straight at the targets. In the bush I would always drop to a knee - can't even do that these days - rather than risk a standing shot.

adkmountainken · « **Reply #21 on:** July 14, 2020, 02:01:13 AM »

let me try to clarify a bit more. i started shooting black powder around 1985 and NONE of my friends were shooting at the time. my first gun was a TC .58 Big Bore and i killed a doe the first year i hunted with it. i absolutly fell in love with muzzleloaders and its by far my favorite way to hunt. i am more hunter then target shooter, most of my target shooting was to sight my muzzleloaders in and i have had MANY over the years. if its not hunting season Sunday usually finds me at the range working up a load for one of my muzzleloaders, i currently have 3 i still need to sight in and work up a hunting load for. i have taken 3 deer off hand with a muzzleloader, all 3 were taken as i was still hunting and did not have time to find a something to "rest" the gun against. i never shot at an event yet but have watched many. i am no novice to black powder just have rarely shot off hand as i had stated i cant make many events so most of my shooting is load development and sighting it. there for when i miss hunting i am quite certain it is operator error as my rifles are spot on. still love shooting to this day as much as i did day one! have taken my 1/2 dozen turkeys and deer with muzzleloader and let me tell you those hunts stick out in my mind more then others. with that said i do now seem to enjoy off hand shooting even though not shooting groups like i was at bench. by the way when i shoot what i call "bench rest" i do not use anything other then my elbows or laying the gun over my range box.

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #22 on:** July 14, 2020, 03:31:07 AM »

Quote from: snapper on July 13, 2020, 04:56:07 PM

I would get very frustrated trying to sight in a gun if I was just shooting off hand.

Fleener

Amen twice!

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #23 on:** July 14, 2020, 03:35:05 AM »

Ken......We still differ quite a bit. In 69 years of hunting I haven't killed any game except by still hunting and offhand. They go together as far as i'm concerned because most shots are taken pretty fast with a lot of them running shots. Even if I wanted to use a rest (never) I don't have time. I've never lost any game. If i'm not sure of the shot I don't shoot.

I don't call it the best way to hunt but it's how dad taught me and my brother and I loved it so much I stayed with it. It always puts a smile on my face.

My practice is just like my hunting. Woods walks and shooting knots in dead trees from different angles and distances. I shoot longer shots during practice to make my hunting shots seem easy.

Do anything all your life and you'll get a bit better at it. Specialize to get good at something. As long as you enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it? Find something you do enjoy and don't give a lick what others think about it. Never ever do something to please others.

alacran · « **Reply #24 on:** July 14, 2020, 03:11:04 PM »

I only use a rest for load development. Don't really care where the group goes as I only shoot for group. Most clubs do not have benches adequate for shooting MLs. So I do my load work off cross sticks. The only rifle I would finish sighting of the sticks is across sticks rifle.
Once a load is settled on, I proceed to sight the rifle offhand. Pistols I only sight in offhand.

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Author Topic: off hand shooting, a humbling experiance! (Read 8009 times)