Author Topic: Original Handmade Bowie Knife  (Read 4643 times)

Offline MuskratMike

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Re: Original Handmade Bowie Knife
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2020, 09:45:04 PM »
Ruster: as someone who has made posts on this forum that I wished later I didn't or had removed you might consider "removing" the post on Elnathan. There are members on this forum who have long forgot more than I will ever know and just because I don't agree is no reason to criticize them in public.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" (I believe that was from Voltaire)
You all be safe out there and God bless, "Muskrat" Mike
"Muskrat" Mike McGuire
Keep your eyes on the skyline, your flint sharp and powder dry.

Offline T.C.Albert

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Re: Original Handmade Bowie Knife
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2020, 10:21:05 PM »
Ditto what they say Ruster, and Listen to Wick. Also, Just posting photos of more knives
Like the Cephas Hamm piece doesnít cut much mustard. Nothing new there.
Whatís the provenance Of the blade you posted first. That might be something interesting to talk about.
Also, Is that sheath original to it? I thought you had some new info on the Debated Black attribution
To the Moore knife but I canít find your initial reference On your posts now.
TC
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 10:28:49 PM by T.C.Albert »
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Offline Elnathan

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Re: Original Handmade Bowie Knife
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2020, 12:06:49 AM »
Ok. At least one of the knives you posted has riveted handles, so it is not, contra your assertion, probably the 1840s - the proposed date of the knife in question. Ergo, it doesn't actually provide evidence to back up your claim that your knife dates prior to the Civil War. I was not attacking your knife or defending it, just observing that the knives posted don't bolster your position they way you seem to think they do.

Incidentally, while it is hard to tell from pictures, I'm really not seeing much that looks like hammer marks on those knives anyway - the first two just look pitted from corrosion, the third - which I discover is the Cephas Hamm knife -  has remnants of file teeth underneath staining and pitting (I like that knife quite a bit, btw. Thanks for posting it, as I was unaware of it until now), and the fourth is just a bad grinding job - it looks like it was done with an angle grinder and I suspect that it is a fairly recent piece from somewhere outside of North America. The form and grind job seem vaguely familiar, and I note it has an intact sheath. I do have some blacksmithing experience, including grinding filing hammer marks off knives, as well as restoring old tools, so I do know from first-hand experience what hammer marks, forge scale, and rust pits look like.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2020, 12:46:59 AM by Elnathan »
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Offline heinz

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Re: Original Handmade Bowie Knife
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2020, 11:20:02 PM »
Elnathan, I am assuming you meant "cutler riveted"  not being found in the 1840s.  Or do you find rivets in general are a later feature? Although I sometimes disagree with you I have a lot of respect for your scholarship and research.
kind regards, heinz

Offline Elnathan

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Re: Original Handmade Bowie Knife
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2020, 12:15:35 AM »
Cutler's rivets. Pins with peened heads were around earlier, I'm sure. I am really not much of a knife guru, and in this case I am just repeating something I've been told elsewhere. I did have a spin through my folders containing the scans I made from Flayderman's book on Bowie Knives and Adams The Antique Bowie Knife and none the knives pictured (all before 1860, I believe) of them have rivets, but that might be selection bias on my part (back in grad school I discovered that the university library had some nice books on Bowie knives and scanned some pictures of examples that appealed to me - I don't own the books so I can't say how representative they are.)
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

Offline LRB

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Re: Original Handmade Bowie Knife
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2020, 10:07:41 PM »
  Peen riveted pins go way way back in history. Any rivet pins for cutlery other than those of iron are very rare and unusual until into the 19th c. The cutlers rivets are a two piece brass rivet, male and female, appearing as best I recall in the late 1860's to the early 1870's.  I could be wrong on this, It has been a while, but horse tack in the 18th c. and I believe 19th c., halters  and such, used a copper stud and washer type rivet, similar but not quite the same as what you find today, but a tad smaller.  The use of an iron pin peened over brass washers were used for some knives in the 19th c. Not sure about 18th c.