Hawken Front Sight

[STJ1954]

I have been working on guns for 30+ years, mostly modern. Always had a liking to Hawken rifles. Built one from parts set several years ago. Had the chance to see Don Stith and talk to him during the build. I have a question and I have never put my hands on original Hawken, only seen pictures. I have seen the front sight installed two ways. The tall section to the front, and tall section to the back. I have 2 sets of instructions for Hawken both have the tall section to the butt of the rifle. I see a lot Kentucky style rifle with the same sight. They are installed tall end to the muzzle. Would like some feed back on this. (Hope the picture works)

[Clark Badgett]

Usually tall end to the butt end works best.

[Daryl]

I have never seen such a designed front sight with the tall end to the muzzle on any gun with the sight mounted correctly. 

[45-110]

Seen plenty of sights with tall end towards muzzle (not on Hawkens though), right or wrong and the owner may have be reinstalled that way. Same concept as a ramp front sight on a revolver.
kw

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I always install my front sight with the taller portion to the rear.  And since I file out my own sights, I eliminate the convex shape on the back end, preferring it to be perfectly vertical.  Then I cut a 45 deg. slope on the top tip so that the facet created is a square.  I polish this bright and when shooting in poor light, that little facet shows as a round glowing sight that is easy to align with the notch of the rear sight.
Show me an original longrifle or plains rifle with the front sight installed the other way around.

[A.Merrill]

   I agree with Taylor.    Al

[elkhorne]

Taylor,
I like your logic on the angles of the front sight. Do you happen to have a photo of one as it sounds better than most I have seen and the ones on most of my rifles. Thanks.
elkhorne

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Here's a before and after pic of the front sight on my own Hawken rifle....before is as it was when I made it and installed it, and after, when it was filed to sight in.










The fourth picture is of a blank sight I made for a client....1/16" thick copper base and .080" thick pure silver blade.

[Daryl]

If you enlarge this picture, you will see the glowing dot of the top-back corner of this blade sight.
It is similar to the one Taylor posted above.

[elkhorne]

Taylor,
Thanks very much for the photos of your sight before and after sighting in. I see the small angle you filed on the back for light reflection. That is a great shape to try. I have been looking for a good profile to replace some sights on my rifles that are so thin, they are hard to see in good light much less low light conditions. Really appreciate the ideas and help.
elkhorne

[Bob Roller]

How wide is that base? I recall seeing an original when visiting Tom Dawson years ago
and I recall the base as being narrower than most sights.
Bob Roller

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I generally make my base about 3/4" long...I dress them down a bit but they all hang out over the edges of the dovetail.

[Bob Roller]

I generally make my base about 3/4" long...I dress them down a bit but they all hang out over the edges of the dovetail.

What I want to know is the width of the dovetail.I think they were narrow.

Bob Roller

[Daryl]

The square 45 degree cut, gives a shiny dot, just like this gun's bead, also filed on a .45 degree angle.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The width of the copper base .... generally shoot for around 3/8" wide.

[Scota4570]

You all have better eyes than I do.  I am making my front sights from steel bar stock about 0.100" wide for a 36" barrel.  Those thin shiny sights are invisible for me. There are other more traditional options but if I can't hit the target I have to draw the line.   

[Daryl]

If you need 1/10" wide sights, so be it - that's what you use. The whole context is the short, squarish 45 degree angle
that is easily touched with Dry Erase felt pen (flat black) on shiny days, or a wipe with a thumb makes it bright again. This
shine is needed in the bush especially when there is game involved.

[Jerry V Lape]

Daryl
Is the sight blade inset into the base or just soldered on top?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I can't say for sure on Daryl's sight, but I suspect it is a thick piece of silver with a peg rivetted and soldered to the steel base, in his case, and then filed into the bead shape.  I always set the blade into a hole in the base, rivet over the bottom, file it flush, and silver solder everything together.
On an occasion when I was at a shot some distance from home, my Hawken slid sideways and landed on its side, bending the sight over flat against the barrel.  I simply used a pair of pliers and bent it right back up straight again, and continued with the match.

[Daryl]

Hi Jerry - the base and a steel blade were a one piece affair.  I shortened the blade further and made it angle from very short at the rear, down to almost touching the base at the front.
With a very tiny needle file I cut a groove in the top of the blade and low temp silver soldered on a short rod of brass. I cut the rod the same width of the base and tapered it, rear to front
 as shown.
It is similarly fashioned to the front sight on Taylor's Lang sporting rifle, albeit a bit rougher.