Cleaning Question

[Molly]

Why is it that some rifles seem to clean up with not a lot of work...and others just seem to never get clean after 60 minutes of swabbing?

[hanshi]

Beats me, but I notice the same thing.  It's my experience one can get a dark patch from swabbing a perfectly clean bore that's clean enough to eat from - okay, not actually "eat".  It may have something to do with bore smoothness or other factors.  I just think that once the patches don't look blackened it's likely pretty clean.  I usually leave my "clean" barrels with WD40 in the bore overnight.  When I swab it out the next day I get (often) some gray patches.  The WD40 appears to pull out micro "stuff" from the bore surface.  If one checks the bore frequently, as I do, it will stay clean even if a lightly soiled patch comes out that is clean when pushed down the bore..

[AZshot]

I've noticed this too.  My new rifle with a Colerain barrel seems to take about 40 patches, an I eventually give up, saying "good enough".  I put some CLP oil in there and check again in a few days.  It's usually a white patch.  My other 2 BP rifles take about 4 wet patches, then a few with oil....done.

[Bob McBride]

I think some steel holds on to and leaches graphite and will give grey patches even when perfectly clean. I could be wrong. 

[MuskratMike]

Some food for thought. It might have to do with patch lube and regional temperature and humidity as much as anything.
I shoot at least weekly with everything from .58 to .32 caliber. With our moderate temperatures and much lower than most humidity, combined with the patch/ ball and lube combinations I use. Seldom do I use more than 6 or 7 patches to clean, dry and oil my rifles.
Just a thought.

[Daryl]

Once the barrel is clean, when drying you will "pull" iron oxide from the bore on a dry or almost dry patch. This happens to me and most often
from some makes of barrels more than others. Less form GM barrel, more form Rice or my old GRRW barrel. If the grey-streaked patch is left
outside over night, it will be rusted in the morning. Once the bore is dry, I FLUSH it with WD40, spraying that into the bore until it runs out the
vent or nipple seat.  That is then patched out, blasting the excess out the vent or nipple seat - running that patch up and down 3 or 4 times.
I then rub down the barrel with the WD40 patch and put the gun back together. DONE.  That patch is clean.  A dry patch run up and down the
bore the next day, always came out clean so I don't do that any more.
I have noticed, that with most lubes, when loading the bore the next time out with that gun, the first loading is a harder push, than any subsequent
loading, no matter how many shots I fire.  I do not wipe at any time while shooting, but then, you all knew that.
Due to having a yearly average of 50% humidity, anything more of a rust preventative than WD40 has not been needed, short term or long.

[AZshot]

I'm at about 15% humidity here.  A towel hung up after a shower is bone dry in about 1 hr or less.  But certainly the lubes probably make a difference.  I'm thinking of trying Ballistol.  Everyone on another forum talks about how good it is for BP, because it's water soluble and such.  I wonder if running a patch wet with that instead of a petroleum based oil would keep it cleaner?  I know years ago people talked about "seasoning" the bore but I never paid much attention.  To me, I want to prevent rust, so use a light oil for the final step, usually.

[Clark Badgett]

I'm at about 15% humidity here.  A towel hung up after a shower is bone dry in about 1 hr or less.  But certainly the lubes probably make a difference.  I'm thinking of trying Ballistol.  Everyone on another forum talks about how good it is for BP, because it's water soluble and such.  I wonder if running a patch wet with that instead of a petroleum based oil would keep it cleaner?  I know years ago people talked about "seasoning" the bore but I never paid much attention.  To me, I want to prevent rust, so use a light oil for the final step, usually.

Ballistol works fine around these parts. I always clean with water and then use Ballistol as others use WD-40. So far so good. And we wear our humidity in the Ohio Valley.

[wolf]

i never use water. i use alcohol to swab, then pure WD40 to clean. the last few times i have used the patch lube mix i have been playing with. it works good as a lube and cleaner. equal parts of alcohol, ballistol, and murphy's oil soap. it works good as a lube and as good as WD40 i am in SC and we have close to 100% humidity all summer. i clean till clean with about 8 patches, sometimes more. but when it is done all is white. if you use a bore brush it will put bronze down your bore and the patches will start coming out funky looking again. when the patches are clean i use rem. oil in the bore and that is it. my bores shine like a monkeys butt. and no water on or under my wood,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[OldMtnMan]

It shows how different we can be for the same results. The only thing that sees my bore is cold water, tow, and bear tallow.

Bore shines like a diamond and no man made goop involved.

I get a warm fuzzy feeling when I shoot, hunt, and clean like the mountain men did.

[Ezra]

There are several reasons I prefer smoothbores.


Ez

[hanshi]

I think some steel holds on to and leaches graphite and will give grey patches even when perfectly clean. I could be wrong.

I think you're absolutely correct, Bob.

[hanshi]

I'll add that a WD40 wash and an alcohol patch to remove it works like a charm.  Everywhere I've lived had summers humid enough to swim in the air.  I rely on Barricade as my rust barrier.  But then various gun oils work fine as well.

[Daryl]

One of the very best gun oils/rust preventatives, is Hoppe's #9 smokeless powder solvent. It is a better rust preventative
than Hoppe's Gun Oil.
In tests, it was second only to Eezox. I do not believe that test including "Barricade".

[hanshi]

It's interesting that you should bring this up, Daryl.  Back in the day I cleaned with Hoppes #9 nitro solvent and, not knowing much about it like any kid, I used it that way with the impression it was both cleaner and rust protection.  It was no surprise to me that it worked just fine.  I still have a bottle, of course. 

I eventually learned better and went on to other ways for stop rust.  I guess sometimes the more you learn, the less you know.   

[Not English]

I use a combination of alcohol, hydrogen peroxide, and Murphy's Oilsoap for cleaning. I know there will be a lot of negative comments about the mixture unstable, but it works for me. I keep it in an opaque plastic container. I've found this to be an excellent cleaner. I also use just plain warm water for a quick clean after shooting if I can't get to a thorough cleaning right away. Either way, I do give the bore a thorough oiling when it is dry. My preferences are Hoppe's #9 or Remington Gun Lube.

[Molly]

Keep in mind this was a "why is it" (not how to).  I got a good potential answer yesterday from an old time shooter.  His take is this.

1.  Some barrels are just not smooth and finely finished.  Essentially they are "rough" on the inside and those minute surface features hold grime that takes longer to clean out.

2.  A round bottom rifled barrel cleans quicker,easier,better than other rifling.

BTW, his magic potent is Windex.  I tried it yesterday and it was excellent.

[OldMtnMan]

Nothing magic about Windex. It's quite common when talking about cleaning.

[WadePatton]

Why is it that some rifles seem to clean up with not a lot of work...and others just seem to never get clean after 60 minutes of swabbing?

Have you ever cleaned with tow?

I got my fill of chasing colors on patches when Cu was the offender.  But tow wasn't on my radar back then. When I can't see any color on a fresh piece of tow, and I'm good and the breech plug shines at me from the far end (I do polish those).

I realize this is a "how" question, not a "why"; but seems relevant. 

[stude283]

     Why would Cu be the offender in a traditional muzzle loader?

[Marcruger]

I have similar issues to Hanshi and AzShot. 

My flinter takes a lot of patches to come clean.  I just clean with lukewarm water (so far).  I am going to try a friend's suggestion of windshield washer fluid next time I go.  Hopefully it'll clean faster, but I think this barrel just holds fouling. 

Once I use 20 or so patches, the bore is clean.....EXCEPT for what looks like pencil graphite in a thin line on each patch.  Like someone packed graphite up against the edge of the groove.  No matter what I try, it is there.  Never rust, even later.  Just a black line on the patch. 

Once clean, I dry it with several patches, then a soaking patch or two with WD-40 and I am done for the day.  I am trusting the WD-40 to displace residual moisture in the metal and corners.  The next day I run a few wet patches with CPL Breakfree down the bore, and that lasts for as long as the gun sits.  I store slightly muzzle down so any CLP migration (if any) will not be to the breech. 

I saw one poster mention that round bottom grooves are easier to clean.  I personally have not found that to be true, as some square bottom barrels are very easy to clean.  If a round bottom barrel is able to be sealed, then I can see a theoretical advantage.  If the rifling is deep, and the grooves aren't totally sealed, they will foul like a big dog.  Those are hard to clean. 

Just my 2 cents worth. 

Sounds to me like AZShot and Hanshi have some of the same experiences.  Feels good to know I am not the only one.  :-D 

So.......what's up with that black line on patches from my barrel?  Iron streak? 

God Bless,   Marc

[OldMtnMan]

It seems a round bottom groove would be easier to scrub out compared to a square bottom groove that has sharp corners to hold the crud.

[WadePatton]

     Why would Cu be the offender in a traditional muzzle loader?

I didn't start out with BP arms. We don't discuss Cu type things here, but the occasional reference is tolerated. The point is don't use any patching to clean a muzzleloader.  As I do it patches are for shooting and tow is for cleaning.

I was asking Molly if she ever cleaned with tow.

[Molly]

I have never heard of using Windex and maybe it's just another substance but it did work much better that the other 100's of bottles of stuff we have used.  As to the round bottom rifling, to me it just geometry.  No corners.  And yes, we use tow but only have worms for 50 and 58.  Tow works much better than a patch.

[OldMtnMan]

I have never heard of using Windex and maybe it's just another substance but it did work much better that the other 100's of bottles of stuff we have used.  As to the round bottom rifling, to me it just geometry.  No corners.  And yes, we use tow but only have worms for 50 and 58.  Tow works much better than a patch.

Probably depends on what forums you post on. Windex is popular on some and not so much on others. If anybody is silly enough to use Pyrodex. Windex with vinegar is supposed to nuetralize the fouling. Bill will have to verify if that's true.