Hard Fouling and the Function of the Lube

[canadianml1]

In BPCR I have found it necessary to use a lube cookie under bullets in order to maintain accuracy. The 'solid" lube is usually a mixture of tallow and bees wax. The fouling from Goex can get so hard that it can deform 20:1 lead/tin bullets to the point of unbelievable inaccuracy. ( 'I can throw rocks more accurately" type of inaccuracy) That being so, hard fouling can certainly damage a cloth patch of just about any type.........JMHO.

My concern is, how does this come into PB ML  shooting? With liquid lubes the barrel essentially gets wiped clean each time while loading a ball down the barrel's length. But for those of us that shoot targets for the purpose of developing loads for hunting situations, what are the variables using tallow when it comes to hard fouling? Would there be an advantage to mixing wax into the lube for PB ML as it is for BPCR shooting? How would mixing wax in affect difficulty of loading and cleaning between shots?

Your thoughts and ideas would be appreciated.

[Clark Badgett]

Leave the wax out. You answered your own question. You wipe the bore with each reload. Oils and greases work best here. If you think Goex fouling is hard, try some of the German stuff for truly hard fouling.

[canadianml1]

Just suppose that in the particular hunting situation that I have in mind, wiping between shots is not practical. Is there another way to deal with hard fouling?

[Clark Badgett]

Each reload wipes the previous shots fowling to the top of the powder column. No need to wipe between shots. Use as tight a ball/patch combo as you can manage to get down the tube. If hunting use a grease, range shooting use an oil. Folks have been known to use Ballistol as a patch lube. Save your wax based lubes for rifles that can be cleaned from end to end.

[Leatherbark]

I would use Track's Mink Oil lube or lambs tallow for hunting. Miss the deer and reload and shoot at it again doesn't happen too often.  If I were to miss and the critter ran away I would have plenty of time to wipe if I needed to.  In my case I would load the rifle and wipe after I loaded to keep from pushing fouling into the touch hole or nipple. Then go on hunting.

 Just cant see a problem using grease or tallow when hunting that cannot be dealt with. If it is too cold and the residue is too hard to push down the next load then you might have to wipe before loading.  But that is something a guy will have to know before he needs to load in the cold.

Bob

[Hungry Horse]

 Clark’s right lose the bees wax, it can’t handle the high heat and pressure. Venison tallow, mutton tallow, or bear grease, are the ticket.

  Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

I switched to Track's Mink Oil for the winter special weapons hunt up here in BC.
I tried several of the cooking oils and they did not work well enough for me.
Pure Neetsfoot Oil would also work.
By working, I am talking about being able to reload without having to wipe the bore.
You need a TIGHT combination to do this as that next ball and patch HAVE to wipe that
shot's fouling, as Clark noted.
You also need a thick enough patch, that holds sufficient lube to do the job. The JOB is
to not only wipe the bore going down, but leave enough 'lube' to soften the fouling of
that shot.
Wax is not your friend. All wax is, is a "stiffener" for the actual lube.
Of course, the muzzle's crown must allow starting and loading of this "tight" combination.

[canadianml1]

Got it!!! 

Thanks for your comments.

[RichG]

every gun and load combo is different, but you should be able to get 5-6 shots using a tight patch/ball combo and mink oil. You will need to shoot your combination and see how many shots until accuracy falls off. My sons 50 cal Colerain will shoot 8 shots before accuracy goes to pot. Round groove .490rb with .025 patch. It's tight. I can't think off any hunting situation that would exceed that. I've had similar results with crisco in warm weather, but crisco will get so stiff in cold weather the patches rip when loading. Haven't used tallow or neetsfoot oil myself so cant speak to them. Have 4 quarts of bear grease that I need to try.

[OldMtnMan]

I'm not from the tight fitting prb crowd. I don't believe a ball stater is PC, so I don't use one. I use bear tallow for a patch lube. After every shot I run a slightly loose fitting ball of tow down the bore. The tow is always attched to the worm. It's simple and fast to run it down the bore between shots.

I use the side of the wood handle on my patch knife to push the ball in the bore, cut the patching material and then ram it down with just the wood ramrod carried on the gun.

Easy and fast and my bore is always in the same condition for every shot. Results are small groups and no hard loading. Good to 100yds which is farther than I can see good enough to use primitive sights.

Not the best way. Just my way. I think the whole process should be PC.

Watch this at the 4.40 minute spot.

[canadianml1]

Thank you OldMtnMan!!

[recurve]

With My old  combo of bees wax and  mutton tallow,  I would get a rock hard crud ring just before the bullet seat in the barrel 1/2 inch above the ball. I even broke a ram rod trying to push threw it , to seat the ball. had to clean every 3rd shot. Then I lost the wax and  things got smoother no crud ring and can shoot several shots with little need for wiping. Got better groups to. just use tallow (mine is mutton)

[Panzerschwein]

In my experience tallow mutton works well and so does oil minks.

[alacran]

Have shot tight ball patch combo, lubed with bear oil. Have shot as many as 30 shots without accuracy falling off.  This has been on trail walks or paper matches. Back East where the humidity is high, don't even need to swab between relays. Here in AZ , you need to swab i  between relays.  When humidity is below 20% barrel crudds  up quickly, regardless of what you use for lube.

[wolf]

I shot this group yesterday here in SC 90 degrees with 90% humidity. I usually use .18 ticking soaked in pure ballistol and let dry, then spit a little to hydrate. but yesterday I used equal parts , alcohol,  ballistol, murphy's oil soap. it worked really well. the bore cleaned up nice and .600 ball went down easy with no swabbing between shots. I will do further testing with this combo. the gun was my 62cal. jaeger. 50yds,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[wolf]

one more thing, if you are shooting swiss/German powder. after 4 or 5 shots you will get a hard ring about 1in from where the ball seats. that is why i went to goex,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Bob McBride]

one more thing, if you are shooting swiss/German powder. after 4 or 5 shots you will get a hard ring about 1in from where the ball seats. that is why i went to goex,,,,,,,,,,,,,

IME that’s a function of your relative humidity and lube choice. I get no crud ring with Swiss in my 50% humidity climate.

[wolf]

one more thing, if you are shooting swiss/German powder. after 4 or 5 shots you will get a hard ring about 1in from where the ball seats. that is why i went to goex,,,,,,,,,,,,,

IME that’s a function of your relative humidity and lube choice. I get no crud ring with Swiss in my 50% humidity climate.

could be the humidly some Bob, but it happens in the winter also. but mostly in my 40, I really can't remember if the 62 dose it bad or not in the winter. but I haven't shot swiss in the 62 in a while. in fact i quit using it, i only use goex now. but the fact that goex doesn't do it at all I have to believe it is the swiss powder. how is the patching and lube video coming along?,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[WadePatton]

I shot this group yesterday here in SC .... the bore cleaned up nice and .600 ball went down easy with no swabbing between shots. I will do further testing with this combo. the gun was my 62cal. jaeger. 50yds,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Nobody tell him of the postal shoots...