Author Topic: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle  (Read 3382 times)

Offline John Thomas

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« on: July 27, 2020, 04:32:24 AM »
I took my .62 Chamber's Colonial Virginia Rifle out today to work on load development.  I took it out once before with a buddy to make sure if it exploded I at least had someone else around.  Good news, it didn't explode. So I tried some serious shooting today.

I went to a public range, my membership application to a range suggested by a member here has not yet been approved, although it has only been a week so no complaints about that.  I had the usual AR shooters blazing away but I will say my rifle got a lot of people to come over and ask questions about it so the interest is there in the shooting public. No takers on my offers to shoot it though. 25 yard range was full of people shooting at shorter ranges so I was forced to go to the 100 yard range to work up a load.

I was shooting .61 balls from TOTW, they appear to measure that same size with my Harbor Freight calipers.  I was using .018 pillow ticking patches from TOTW as well, which also measured .18 when pushing down hard on the calipers.  I experimented with a number of charges and load and unfortunately stumbled across a potential load at the end of the day after about 4 hours.  I tried straight Ballistol and Hoppes 9+ at first and then switched to a moose milk combo.  I was using 1:4 Ballistol to WWF with wet patches and 110 or 100 grains of powder (2F Schuetzen).  I started at 125 grains and down to 100 grains in 5 grain increments before I seemed to find something that might work.  I ended up with a 7" group at 100 yards with 100 and 110 grains, a slight windage difference but elevation was about the same. That difference may be due to wind.

Unfortunately at this point I had already shot about 30 rounds and the wind had picked up (15 mph, although I tried to fire between gusts).  I can normally shoot a reliable 2" group with a 1903A3 at 100 yards off a sandbag if I do my part (I mention this because my flintlock also has a peep sight so I used that center fire reference as a bench mark).  At this range I did not have target distinction issues.

My questions are as follows:

1) I noticed that during wind gusts I frequently had a hang fire/failure to fire.  I'm in ND so winds are a common occurrence, but it seemed as if the priming would ignite but not hit the main charge?  Vent appeared clear, sometimes I could even see a grain of the main charge poking out of the vent after a FTF.  If I was facing North, I had a gust out of the North West blowing across the rifle, which seems to be the optimal direction for the priming to blow away.  Is this a problem others have experienced?  I was using 4F Goex as prime which during still moments gave great ignition.

2)  7" groups at 100 yards aren't going to cut it for hunting.  I was shooting off a sandbag but resting the gun on my hand rather than the bag as suggested here.  What groups are others shooting at this distance so I can know what goal I should set?

3) Following numerous posts by members here, I was able to shoot without having to wipe between shots, with no appreciable difference in difficulty loading.  I would not describe loading as difficult, but I would also not describe it as particularly easy either.  I was able to recover 25 patches from shooting, none appeared to have any burn through.  Does that mean that a sufficient seal has been made between ball, patch and rifling?

4) Final question.  Does any one have any load suggestions? I'm not sure if I am shooting low power, middle of the road or what charges?  I have searched here and found a good bit of smoothbore loads, but not much on rifles.

Below is a picture of the final target for the day with the patches.  This is not a target I would hang on the fridge...  Ruler is 6".





Thank you for any advice you can provide. 

JT

Offline EC121

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1610
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2020, 05:07:02 AM »
I shoot .595s in both of my .62s with a heavy awning canvas .023 patch and 95gr. 2F.  However, I have never shot past 50yds.  Have you drilled out the touch hole?
Brice Stultz

Offline bob in the woods

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4555
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2020, 05:21:00 AM »
Where is the touch hole in relation to the pan ?   How much priming powder do you use ?    I'm assuming that you have installed a white lightening vent liner ? If so, what size hole is in it now , and is the liner cleaned up inside the barrel ?  Does the barrel plug interfere with the vent hole ?
I'm asking these questions because the Chamber's lock used on that rifle is fabulous, and I've always had exceptionally fast ignition with it. If you can see powder granuals in the vent the gun should go off immediately....unless you are seeing carbon fouling particles which is my thought.
Many like a 1/16th inch vent hole, but I prefer a 5/64ths.  A delayed ignition or flash in the pan is a rare thing for me, and always my own fault

Offline stretchman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2020, 05:22:58 AM »
I have a 62 flintlock based on an English sporting rifle.  It is a heavy gun with a 1 1/4” across the flats barrel. There isn’t much drop in the stock, so recoil isn’t that bad.  My loads consist of 150-180 grains of Ff Goex under a .615” round ball and .023” canvas patching.  I have had good luck with mink oil and bore butter.  I will probably catch heck from a few for using bore butter, but I can buy it locally without having to order it.  I have used and continue to use neats foot oil, but for me it doesn’t work as well as the first two lubes mentioned.  If I were you, I would experiment with more powder, but if you are shooting with a cross wind, it will be next to impossible to come to any conclusion as for as the accuracy of your load.  Some people like lighter loads, but my experience has been less tracking and greatly improved terminal ballistics on game with the higher powder charges.  My 100 yard targets aren’t competition grade, but are more than adequate for hunting white tails.

These are my opinions as far as load development goes, so write them in pencil as they are by no means law.  Good luck and have fun developing your load.
 


image uploader

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15822
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2020, 07:21:03 AM »
Wind is the devil with round balls & even with bullets, fast or slow.
1st off, the lube you are using, being water-soluble is not a hunting lube in my opinion.  That will take another day or so at the range to figure out.
Hunting lubes usually do not have the same requirements and demands, as-do target (water soluble) lubes.
The lubes strechman notes, are hunting lubes (with the exception of bore butter - lol - each to his own- if it works for you, use it. His accuracy says it does)
The 5 shots grouped together show potential - the other 6 may represent wind. Your groups elevation is fairly good, considering you haven't quite got a seal - yet.
The very left hand patch shows scorching in each groove, from blow-by, but not enough to burn or ignite the patch or cause a hole.
I am quite convinced your accuracy will improve with less wind & with a tighter ball and patch combination.
Taylor found 127gr. 2f GOEX shot best in his Rice .62, with a 615" ball and .022" denim patch, for shooting 100yards and beyond. He discovered this when we were
involved in a 200yard round ball contest.

Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline John Thomas

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2020, 05:34:59 PM »
Where is the touch hole in relation to the pan ?   How much priming powder do you use ?    I'm assuming that you have installed a white lightening vent liner ? If so, what size hole is in it now , and is the liner cleaned up inside the barrel ?  Does the barrel plug interfere with the vent hole ?
I'm asking these questions because the Chamber's lock used on that rifle is fabulous, and I've always had exceptionally fast ignition with it. If you can see powder granuals in the vent the gun should go off immediately....unless you are seeing carbon fouling particles which is my thought.
Many like a 1/16th inch vent hole, but I prefer a 5/64ths.  A delayed ignition or flash in the pan is a rare thing for me, and always my own fault

The touch hole is in sunset position.  I have a white lightening touch hole liner.  It is the standard size hole, I haven't modified it.  I have cleaned up the liner inside the barrel.  The breech plug I filed so that ignition is directed to the center of the main charge.  I use a few grains of 4f as prime.  I have no problems with ignition when the wind is still, it just seems that if it is windy the priming ignites but is already blowing away from the vent.  Next time I'm at the range I will see if the problem persists, if so I may enlarge the vent.

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19522
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2020, 05:40:01 PM »
That is some serious wind!  I agree it’s important to look at vertical and horizontal spread and when working up a load in the wind, maybe discount the horizontal spread a bit.
Andover, Vermont

Offline John Thomas

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2020, 05:57:44 PM »
Thank you all for the advice, and noticing the burn through on one of the patches!  I missed that one, unfortunately I've already tossed them.  I will try a few different lubes and patch materials, I have a TOTW order to make today so I will try their mink oil that many speak highly of.  It looks like they only have .610 balls, does anyone know a source for .615 balls?  I'll order some .595 as well.

Thanks again,

JT

Offline wolf

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2020, 07:47:27 PM »
62 jaeger, 80gr. of goex 3F .18 ticking, lube equal part ballistol, alcohol, murphy's oil soap. off the bench yesterday 50yds.  that load doesn't kill my shoulder but will kill anything America that needs killin,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 08:00:09 PM by wolf »
I have never "harvested" a critter but I have killed quite a few,,,,,,,,,,,

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15822
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2020, 11:31:29 PM »
In "Firearms of the American West", it was stated that the troops complained about the wind "taking their priming away" on more than one occasion.
Of course, in the 1842 model musket, this was not a problem.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline bob in the woods

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4555
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2020, 12:09:59 AM »
Possible solutions to flash in the pans etc which you are experiencing due to wind are :  one-  use more priming powder than just a few grains. When hunting , especially for bears , or in wet conditions [ moose  :) ]   I just about fill the pan.      Two-  try using 3 F for priming.  Less likely to blow away.

Offline Frank

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 968
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2020, 01:10:06 AM »
62 jaeger, 80gr. of goex 3F .18 ticking, lube equal part ballistol, alcohol, murphy's oil soap. off the bench yesterday 50yds.  that load doesn't kill my shoulder but will kill anything America that needs killin,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

What make barrel and ball size and rate of twist?

Thanks

Offline wolf

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2020, 01:47:37 AM »
Frank it is a Don Getz barrel and I think the twist is 1-66 I haven't checked it to be certain,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I have never "harvested" a critter but I have killed quite a few,,,,,,,,,,,

Offline Frank

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 968
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2020, 03:42:47 AM »
Frank it is a Don Getz barrel and I think the twist is 1-66 I haven't checked it to be certain,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Thanks, I am having a heck of a time getting my Colerain 62 caliber to group well. Three different ball sizes, 3 different patch thickness, 2f and 3f, multiple powder charges and the best groups I have are 3 inches at 50 yards. Getting frustrated, but maybe that is as good as it gets with my old eyes.  ;D

Offline WadePatton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5303
  • Tennessee
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2020, 03:54:11 AM »
You don't want powder poking through your touchhole. It's better to shove a pick/quill into the hole after loading to make sure it's clear, and even to make a divot in the powder charge, this will give the flame front the most powder surface to ignite. 

Maybe a heavier priming powder would stay in place better?  Assuming you primed with a finer powder?

Probably easier to work up your best load at 50-ish yards and less wind for certain. 

Also puzzled as to why you discarded your patches.  I like getting two shots out of 'em.  Denim starts fraying after that.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 04:00:41 AM by WadePatton »
Hold to the Wind

Offline wolf

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2020, 01:45:12 PM »
Frank it is a Don Getz barrel and I think the twist is 1-66 I haven't checked it to be certain,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Thanks, I am having a heck of a time getting my Colerain 62 caliber to group well. Three different ball sizes, 3 different patch thickness, 2f and 3f, multiple powder charges and the best groups I have are 3 inches at 50 yards. Getting frustrated, but maybe that is as good as it gets with my old eyes.  ;D

Frank I had another 62 jaeger I just let go to a friend. it has a Colerain barrel. it is every bit as accurate as this one. I used this load in it. .18 ticking .600 lee home cast ball, 75 gr. of 2F ol eynsford goex. it will shoot a one hole 3 shot group at 50yds. it has a 1-66 barrel.   i have found ol eynsford hard to beat.  I hope this helps you,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I have never "harvested" a critter but I have killed quite a few,,,,,,,,,,,

Offline smallpatch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4107
  • Dane Lund
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2020, 05:12:59 PM »
If that liner is as it comes from the factory, I’d open it up to 1/16”.  Should be very reliable at that point.
In His grip,

Dane

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15822
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2020, 06:40:43 PM »
Seems to me, Don Getz made a lot of 56" twist barrels.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline wolf

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2020, 09:13:57 PM »
well I assume it is 1-66, I am not certain. how would I check the twist on a 31in barrel with a slow twist rate? not sure how to on a short barrel,,,,,,,,,
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 09:17:00 PM by wolf »
I have never "harvested" a critter but I have killed quite a few,,,,,,,,,,,

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15822
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2020, 10:39:50 PM »
Tight patch on a jag. Looking for either 1/2 a revolution, or 1/4 - easily done with a flag - or marker dot on tape, on the rod.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline wolf

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2020, 11:44:34 PM »
it turns about 3/4 in 31in, i don't know how to calculate that. if anyone knows please let me know,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I have never "harvested" a critter but I have killed quite a few,,,,,,,,,,,

Offline flinchrocket

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1750
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2020, 12:04:59 AM »
31 divided by 3 then multiply by 4. Comes out to just over 41, so may be 1-48.
You could check to see if 24 inches = 1/2 turn.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 12:10:07 AM by flinchrocket »

Offline Frank

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 968
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2020, 01:38:28 AM »
31 divided by .75 equals 41.3.

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15822
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2020, 01:50:32 AM »
I expect it is likely 48".  Don and I had quite a bit of a conversation by Nicholas Hawke's shop in Pennsylvania at the BQ
sitting on the park-bench. A treasured moment & discussion on rate of twist & load development.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline wolf

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
Re: Load Development Questions, .62 rifle
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2020, 02:08:51 AM »
fellers I made a mistake! I rechecked it, that just didn't seem right to me. it turns just a little less than 1/2 turn in 31in.
I have never "harvested" a critter but I have killed quite a few,,,,,,,,,,,