Author Topic: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?  (Read 6735 times)

Offline Panzerschwein

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2020, 02:32:11 AM »
Keep in mind every person mentioned so far has waiting list in the years.

This is for good reason. They are masters of their craft, and there aren’t very many out there making real styled Hawkens of toppest qualitication.

Offline redheart

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2020, 09:37:41 PM »
Keep in mind every person mentioned so far has waiting list in the years.

This is for good reason. They are masters of their craft, and there aren’t very many out there making real styled Hawkens of toppest qualitication.
I agree!  There aren't very many out there that even know what toppest qualitication even means. ??? ::) ::) :o
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 10:45:33 PM by redheart »

Offline borderdogs

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2020, 10:46:57 PM »
What I was referring to was know ahead of time what the realistic lead time will be if you can get it. In my experience a quoted lead time always ends up being a fair bit more that what is first quoted.  I would also recommend frequent communication when your rifle or project is begun by the builder, lessons I learned by experience.
Rob
 

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2020, 12:57:32 AM »
2-3 years is probably average  for a good builder. I'd have a conversation with the builder just before he starts then leave him alone. He can't build your gun while he's gabbing on the phone.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline heelerau

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2020, 12:33:32 AM »
Niel Fields of Vernal Utah, ( also a mate of Herbs) would build a nice  Hawken rifle,  he also built rifles for Doc Whites Green River Rifle Company, pm me if you want his contact details as he is a mate of mine.

cheers

Gordon
Keep yor  hoss well shod an' yor powdah dry !

Offline Srkmarine1101

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2020, 06:40:19 AM »
I have a Brant Selb 54 Cal hawken which I love.  I'm now looking for a smaller Cal Hawken used from Brant possibly but would like to know other quality makers too...tippit

I have Brant making me one now. Absolutely cannot wait for that rifle to be done!

Offline tippit

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2020, 09:22:40 PM »
Thank y'all for the names.  At 74, looks like I won't be having one built for me. I'll keep pursuing the want ads to see if one turns up...tippit

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2020, 12:21:56 AM »
Thank y'all for the names.  At 74, looks like I won't be having one built for me. I'll keep pursuing the want ads to see if one turns up...tippit

And at 84 you may be kicking your older self in the butt for not getting on a list now.

Don't dig your hole prematurely.  Good luck finding one or a builder that suits you in a timely fashion.


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Offline borderdogs

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2020, 01:19:38 AM »
Tippit,
Why not build what you want? It costs nothing to learn about what you like and the history of the rifles you like. I hadnt built a rifle for nearly forty years and finished one a couple months ago. I just started a new one and have a couple others in the works. You could too!
Rob

Offline Srkmarine1101

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2020, 09:39:58 PM »
Is building a Hawken significantly more difficult than building a traditional long rifle?

Offline borderdogs

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2020, 10:52:18 PM »
Some with way more experience than me say yes. I have only completed two rifles working on a third and all were Hawken or Hawken like. The first one I built was nearly 40 years ago and I didn't feel it was that difficult at the time. The one I just finished is a full stock Hawken flint and I had some difficulties building it but got through it ok. The one I am presently building is going along better than the full stock flint. This one is a full stock too but percussion. The subtle features of the Hawken and getting them right is what makes them difficult.
Rob

Online rich pierce

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2020, 04:42:17 PM »
Is building a Hawken significantly more difficult than building a traditional long rifle?

Building any muzzleloaders can be hard or easy. If you’re dealing with a CNC kit beautifully designed with great architecture, I’m not sure it can be hard. If you’re starting with a blank, a barrel, lock, and small parts and are building a halfstock Hawken rifle or a plain flintlock rifle with no carving, engraving or patchbox, the plain halfstock Hawken is much harder.

You have to fit and finish the hooked breech compared to a simple flint tang.

You have to hold that hooked breech together while inletting.

The long thin curved tang is a bear to inlet. Then a bear to drill in center and into the long, thin, curved trigger bar.

Cutting the lockplate to fit the snail on the hooked breech is not a lot of fun.

Double set triggers are a must on a Hawken but optional in many longrifle styles.

Fitting, drilling and tapping the rib is tedious.

That thin steel, deeply curved buttplate is a bear to inlet compared to malleable brass buttplate with little curvature.

That’s just the nuts and bolts of it. On a plain Hawken there’s nothing but architecture. 
Andover, Vermont

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2020, 09:52:26 PM »
Is building a Hawken significantly more difficult than building a traditional long rifle?

I'd highly recommend a video like Hershel's where he shows the viewer a lot of the differences in the structure and architecture of Hawken-type gun vs. most of the guns that came before them.

The Hawken-named rifles that I and many others started out with are nowhere near what a real Hawken is. Any time you build a gun to represent a particular builder or shop or county, it's worth a deep dive to be sure you get it closer to right than many of the high-volume commercial production examples we see.

Anything less is a bit of a disservice to the fellas who did make the originals. 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 09:56:15 PM by WadePatton »
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Offline MuskratMike

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2020, 06:10:45 AM »
The Hawken Shop in Oak Harbor, Washington (www.TheHawkenShop.com) has the most authentic kits available as they are the owners of the parts, molds, castings from the original shop in St. Louis). You would think I would be more up to date on these historic weapons living in Oregon but after having one (a fine custom full stock) I am one of the few who would much rather shoot from the 1750's to 1820's era flintlocks. They may or may not complete one for you but it might be worth a call or check out their web page.
"Muskrat" Mike McGuire
Keep your eyes on the skyline, your flint sharp and powder dry.

Offline Srkmarine1101

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2020, 05:06:59 AM »
Is building a Hawken significantly more difficult than building a traditional long rifle?

Building any muzzleloaders can be hard or easy. If you’re dealing with a CNC kit beautifully designed with great architecture, I’m not sure it can be hard. If you’re starting with a blank, a barrel, lock, and small parts and are building a halfstock Hawken rifle or a plain flintlock rifle with no carving, engraving or patchbox, the plain halfstock Hawken is much harder.

You have to fit and finish the hooked breech compared to a simple flint tang.

You have to hold that hooked breech together while inletting.

The long thin curved tang is a bear to inlet. Then a bear to drill in center and into the long, thin, curved trigger bar.

Cutting the lockplate to fit the snail on the hooked breech is not a lot of fun.

Double set triggers are a must on a Hawken but optional in many longrifle styles.

Fitting, drilling and tapping the rib is tedious.

That thin steel, deeply curved buttplate is a bear to inlet compared to malleable brass buttplate with little curvature.

That’s just the nuts and bolts of it. On a plain Hawken there’s nothing but architecture.

Thank you for taking the time to write this excellent response!

Offline Don Stith

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2020, 12:45:30 AM »
The Hawken Shop in Oak Harbor, Washington (www.TheHawkenShop.com) has the most authentic kits available as they are the owners of the parts, molds, castings from the original shop in St. Louis). You would think I would be more up to date on these historic weapons living in Oregon but after having one (a fine custom full stock) I am one of the few who would much rather shoot from the 1750's to 1820's era flintlocks. They may or may not complete one for you but it might be worth a call or check out their web page.
A little clarification is needed
  The parts,Molds and castings they have are from the 1970's Art Ressel version of the Hawken shop.  They are not from Jake and Sam's Hawken shop of 1840.
Don

Offline MuskratMike

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2020, 01:28:50 AM »
Don: Sorry I did not know this. Thank you for setting the record straight, that's all any of us want. My bad.
"Muskrat" Mike McGuire
Keep your eyes on the skyline, your flint sharp and powder dry.

Offline ScottH

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2020, 12:55:45 AM »
I had a plains rifle built for me by John Bergmann. He used a barrel he had made for the project by Bobby Hoyt, it is 34" long .54 caliber and tapered from 1 1/8" to 1" at the muzzle. It shoots great. He did a fine job, and I am very fond of the rifle. That aside, the rifle weighs about 11 and 1/2 pounds. It ain't no tulip!
If I was going to do it again I might be tempted to order components from Don Stith and either do it myself or have a guy like Bergmann put it together and it would have a slimmer barrel to get the weight down.

Offline borderdogs

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Re: Who Makes Quality Hawken Rifles?
« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2020, 02:48:18 AM »
I am working on a light plains rifle that Don put the parts together for me. Its a full stock Hawken squirrel in .54.............before anyone jokes about a .54 squirrel we have big squirrels! Seriously though I wanted a lighter Hawken full stock in percussion in .45 or better to use and carry in the field.  Don had a .54 and that will work. The parts set is great and so are the plans and Don has been very helpful with questions I have had as I build it. I plan on doing an early J & S Hawken full stock flint from his parts after I finish this one. Don's a great guy to deal. Also Roger Sells has been very helpful getting details on my next fullstock flint build he built a fantastic copy of an early Hawken in a walnut stock.
Rob