Author Topic: Graver set...will they work?  (Read 784 times)

Offline JLSawyer

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Graver set...will they work?
« on: August 02, 2020, 05:34:35 PM »
Hello All,

Was wondering if this plate makers graver set would work or at least be a good beginners set. Iím looking for a set to learn with and not looking to spend a ton of money. The price is decent I think. Iíve listed below whatís included in the set. Thanks!

E. C. Lyons Plate makers Set. L334-L5 Lozenge Graver. L334-F40 Flat Graver #40 L334-F46 Flat Graver #46 L334-
R54 Round Graver #54 L334-R60 Round Graver #60 L334-P3 Point Graver #3. L 334







« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 05:40:24 PM by JLSawyer »
Best Regards,

Josh Sawyer

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Graver set...will they work?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2020, 07:03:07 PM »
These are push gravers and require a different technique than chasing engravers.  I believe a beginner should use simple square gravers and a chasing hammer.  The push gravers have their place too and supplement the chasing gravers for some cuts, notably, shading.
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Offline T*O*F

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Re: Graver set...will they work?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2020, 08:45:47 PM »
Ditto to Taylor.  Don't waste your money.  Buy one of the square gravers offered here from time to time and do hammer chasing.  They can be used with a light wood mallet or small ball pein hammer, or you can buy a chasing hammer.
Dave Kanger

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Offline JLSawyer

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Re: Graver set...will they work?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2020, 09:47:31 PM »
Thanks guys. Appreciate it. Can you post some pictures of what I should be looking for? What shape tip is the most universal?
Best Regards,

Josh Sawyer

Offline Mike Lyons

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Re: Graver set...will they work?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2020, 10:45:20 PM »

Hereís a good place to start.  Someone on here recommended this site a couple years ago.  I bought the universal sharpener, a couple sharpening stones, a couple hss blanks and the metal chisel holder.

https://www.airgraver.com/Manual-Engraving-Tools.htm

https://www.airgraver.com/sharpening.htm

Offline davec2

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Re: Graver set...will they work?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2020, 12:26:27 AM »
Ditto...ditto....I do at least 99% of all the engraving I do with two gravers....a 90 degree square and a flat.  Especially for a beginner, I would suggest that those two are all you need.  And the very most important thing to master first is how to sharpen those two types of gravers.  And then get a chasing hammer.  You can certainly use a small ball peen or whatever, but there is a reason the hammers used by engravers for centuries are small, light, with a large diameter face and a thin "whippy" handle.

A while back I posted the following.  The tools used by this 9 year old were very simple and, as you can see, he was doing a more than credible job of engraving.....and FAST !

On the subject of young engravers:

In 1978 I was a junior officer aboard a Navy destroyer on a western Pacific deployment.  We had been in and out of the US Naval base at Subic Bay.  One day as I was on the pier, there was a small boy with a little portable work bench doing something for a sailor from another ship.  I walked over to see what was up and the lad was engraving brass belt buckles.  He asked me if I wanted a buckle.  I asked how long it would take... and he said about 20 minutes !  He had a small vice, a single square (obviously home made) graver, a sharpening stone, and a little hammer.  This is what he engraved for meÖ..in about 20 minutes.  He wanted $5ÖÖI gave him $20.  He smiled a lot.  I asked him how old he was.  He was 9.


« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 12:34:44 AM by davec2 »
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
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Offline FALout

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Re: Graver set...will they work?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2020, 01:52:05 AM »
Be interesting to see what that 9 year old is doing today!
Bob

Offline Not English

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Re: Graver set...will they work?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2020, 04:08:15 AM »
The way Bruce Lepage taught engraving in short classes was to make a wedge and onglette engraver for chasing out of 1/4" roundstock and 1/8' lathe bits. The round stock was cut to roughly 7" and the drilled through the end on the long axis with an F bit( not sure ). The 1/8" lathe bit was bevelled on one so it would start in the hole. the lathe bit was then clamped in a vice and the 1/4" rod was driven on to the lathe bit. The gravers were then ground to rough shape on a grinding wheel and finished by hand on a sharpening stone. I use the push gravers for fine work and shading. Chasing hammers were made out of a 1/2" or larger 2" bolt with 2 nuts. Thew handles were 5/16" dowels that were glued into a 3/4" handle. The bolts were drilled crosswise through the shank with a 5/16" inch drill leaving enough space on each side of the hole for a nut. The 5/16" dowel was then fitted through the hole and the nuts would be tightened up on it to hold the handle in place. The handle supplied enough  spring for proper engraving action. I still use the gravers made this way and have made other shapes in the same manner. New chasing hammers need work straight out of the box. The shank of the hammer from the bulbous part of the handle needs to be scraped down in circumference to the head. They are too stiff as purchased.

Dave

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Graver set...will they work?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2020, 02:28:26 PM »
My engraving "set" consists of three square gravers, each sharpened differently. Pretty much covers everything you see in 18th century American work. two are chased  and one is a hand pusher. The hand pusher is the one I usually push clear through my left hand every once in a while. :P
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Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Graver set...will they work?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2020, 05:02:29 PM »
Ron (Ky-Flinter), Joe Stein, and I all attended Tom Curranís engraving class last fall at Canterís Cave.  Tom worked with Steve Lindsay and Steve offered a Kentucky Rife engraving kit for beginners.  It contained everything including the proper template for sharpening the square graver used in the class.  Lindsay listed it on his website.  Perhaps Tom can provide more information if he sees this thread.

Don Richards
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Offline JLSawyer

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Re: Graver set...will they work?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2020, 06:07:57 PM »
Ron (Ky-Flinter), Joe Stein, and I all attended Tom Curranís engraving class last fall at Canterís Cave.  Tom worked with Steve Lindsay and Steve offered a Kentucky Rife engraving kit for beginners.  It contained everything including the proper template for sharpening the square graver used in the class.  Lindsay listed it on his website.  Perhaps Tom can provide more information if he sees this thread.

Don Richards


If someone out there is offering a starter kit for beginners that would be awesome because Iím having trouble finding the right tools online. Everything out there seems to be geared toward the pneumatic air gravers which is not what Iím looking for.
Best Regards,

Josh Sawyer

Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Graver set...will they work?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2020, 06:39:25 PM »
Josh,

Here is the link. https://www.airgraver.com/EngravingSets.htm   Scroll to the bottom of the page and see the Kentucky Long Rifle set.  There are two versions.  A basic and a deluxe set.  I suggest you get the deluxe set as it contains all the items you need to start out in engraving.  If you get a chance to attend an engraving class taught by Tom Curran, I suggest you do so.

Don Richards
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NMLRA Florida State Field Rep Coordinator

Offline TommyG

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Re: Graver set...will they work?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2020, 07:54:25 PM »
The guys here are absolutely spot on about the Lindsay sharpening system.  I purchased the KY rifle set up last year from Lindsay.  Not a silver bullet by any means, but if you can take the "guesswork' out of sharpening and have it repeatable, multiple tools sharpened almost identical to one another, what's not to like.  You will be able to spend more time learning how to actually engrave without being frustrated by sharpening skills, or lack thereof.  Now if only he made a system for the Pfiel "V" tools for carving!!

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Graver set...will they work?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2020, 11:50:33 PM »
Ron (Ky-Flinter), Joe Stein, and I all attended Tom Curranís engraving class last fall at Canterís Cave.  Tom worked with Steve Lindsay and Steve offered a Kentucky Rife engraving kit for beginners.  It contained everything including the proper template for sharpening the square graver used in the class.  Lindsay listed it on his website.  Perhaps Tom can provide more information if he sees this thread.

Don Richards

Thanks, Don.

Hammer and chisel, as Mike Brooks says, is all you need for Kentucky rifle engraving. You can PM me for more info. You can do a whole gun with a square graver. One tool. But you must be able to sharpen it, because you'll break the point many times, and resharpening easily is a must. 

This patchbox is hammer and chisel, with a square graver.


The image below is PUSH GRAVED. Very light and shallow cuts which will not hold up to wear and tear.



« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 11:56:31 PM by Acer Saccharum »
Tom Curran's web site : http://tcurran.com/

Offline dogcatcher

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Re: Graver set...will they work?
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2020, 04:27:04 AM »
Several years ago I bought a few of these
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3pc-Drill-Bit-Pin-Vise-Chuck-for-Rotary-Flex-Shaft-Tool/221682348626?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Then on my wood lathe I drilled out a wood blank with the appropriate hole on one end and a 3/8" hole on the other end.  I then turned it to the shape I wanted.  I then epoxied a piece of 3/8 steel rod in one end, and the above pin vise in the other.  I made these for several uses, but they also worked great for holding graver bits.  I used round tooling bits, but the appropriate collet also held the 3/32 square bits. 

The 3/8 steel rod keeps the top end from getting messed  up by my hammer, I also like the weight factor it adds.  I also suggest you sand a flat side where you want it, that will help in keeping it from rolling off your work station.  5 seconds on a belt sander and you have the flat.